mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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Yeah, that is the solution I'm looking for here. Well done.

It seems you've done the whole Shapeshifting level now, but as far as I remember you may an unsolved room or two in other levels?
I'm not too worried about them - Shapeshifting is the most complicated thing here and #1 priority for testing, other levels are way more simplistic - but taking a look at them is appreciated.

KituU
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 221
Registered: 07-02-2014
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Hi, Manip 1W : couldn't solve it yet.
imo, what is needed to solve this puzzle is very cool (took your hint and tested in editor) , and how to free SW Stalwart also cool.
However, maybe I’m mistaken, the way to execute this seems to need a certain placement of Stalwart and timing to hit second orb, to succeed in getting queen unstuck or on its way, and Stalwart safe. Honestly, it is very difficult and not much fun, a lot of trial and error, (maybe I lack better understanding of Stalwarts and they usually are a bit exasperating).
Maybe consider changing this part a bit? Adding another Stalwart ? or adding some element that would help this process?

KituU
Level: Master Delver
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So,could beat manip 1W , demo

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 02-11-2008
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Good thing is - your execution for 1W is quite different from mine (you open roach queen chambers in different order, use different roach queen for the end part, different positioning of stalwart, etc.) Which means that it doesn't require *exact* positioning in order to solve it.
Bad thing is - it may still be pretty evil.

I have tried testing out some changes for the room - it still ends up being pretty evil. At this point maybe I'll just leave it as it is.

Adding another stalwart is something I don't really want to do as I prefer not to give extra resources for no good reason. Actually keeping him alive here is not a problem, the problem is mostly manipulating roach queen while doing it.

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
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FYI - I think I'll submit this sometime tomorrow.
EDIT: I have submitted it now. Thanks to everyone who took a look during architecture process.

I've made a few small final changes (basically added 1-move conquer tokens to non-puzzle entrance rooms, and tweaked dialogue in one of rooms a tiny bit), and that should be it.

I've played through the hold, checked all the changes I've made and everything is possible.

I recall blorx saying he was playing through this, if you need some more time, I can wait in that case. Otherwise I'll go ahead and submit in one day.
If anyone else wanted to provide feedback as well - do tell.

KituU - thanks for playing through this during testing. If I'm correct you're pretty much done with the hold now, right? Although I'll note that some horde rooms (1N 1E, 1S 1E) were changed since you first played them. Hordes 2E is way less evil now in case you haven't completed it yet.
Boyblue - thanks for feedback as well.

My final verdict on Manipulation 1W - it'll stay as it is. Small tweaks I've tried didn't seem to help much, some people are going to dislike it anyway because stalwarts, so whatever. Tweaks like adding more checkpoints I can do, though. (right now it has plenty, but maybe in wrong places?)
It would need major redesign in order to make it more friendly. Not something I have inspiration for right now. I hope it's not too bad

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 03-22-2020 10:20 AM]

blorx1
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 07-18-2009
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I probably won't finish this all that soon. I tried to play the horde rooms, but I'm definitely out of practice in that regard. On my first pass way back when you first posted it I made it a bit of the way into the shapeshifting path before I'd gotten distracted by life so maybe I should have just stuck with that this time around too.

____________________________
If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

KituU
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 221
Registered: 07-02-2014
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Hi, about Manipulation 1W : it does have different solutions, so it is not a magic sequence. Checkpoints seems fine to me. To be fair, with patience, it is perfectly doable, it just seems so impossible !!!
Played eveything, but timed Queens horde 1N1E, and new version of 1S1E (which i don't understand: Clones in closed chamber with gentryii, only 1 move is possible for the 4 clones?, as then the gentryiis are free with no arrows at all?), don't have time for a couple of days though.
It is a fantastic hold, liked it very very much! So creative, thank you for making it

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[Last edited by KituU at 03-22-2020 05:30 AM]

KituU
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 221
Registered: 07-02-2014
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Hi, Hordes 1S1E : don't undestand, the 4 clones mechanism is now disabled. All they can now do is place guards and open roaches door, as gentryiis are free .

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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KituU wrote:
All they can now do is place guards and open roaches door, as gentryiis are free .

And that is all they need to do in this room.
You have to use other resources you are given to survive.

A bit more direct hint in case you need it:

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 03-25-2020 07:43 PM]