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A short hold good for beginners with occasional hard rooms and easy rooms

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1129
Registered: 06-10-2004
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Disclaimer: The constructive criticism in this post is mixed in with a bit of snark.

The quality of a hold is often inversely proportional to the grammatical liberties the author takes in its intro text.

First level wasn't too bad, some unnecessary and unexplained scripting in the first room, and a fairly unremarkable level, but again, nothing stood out as bad either.

However, The Basement: Thrice North. Why.


A bit of advice: The architect's job is not to frustrate the player, or to stop them from finishing the hold. The architect's job is to create an enjoyable challenge. Remember, players aren't obligated to finish a hold. Rooms like this make people quit. From the scroll, it's clear that you're fully aware that this room is tedious, dull, and generally not fun. In that case, why does it exist? You're not being clever or creative by expecting the player to waste their time running from orb to orb, slogging through a horde of roaches. There's no puzzle here, it's just tedium. Now a repetitive room can be forgiven in an otherwise strong level, but...well....


In the interest of full disclosure, I didn't complete the hold. For all I know, the rest of the hold could be the next Gigantic Jewel Lost. If that's the case, I will revise my rating. (EDIT: Finished the hold, it isn't.) But for now, 2/10 and 2 brains. If that room wasn't in, it would probably be more of a 4/10.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 01-29-2014 05:22 AM]

Red-XIII
Level: Smitemaster

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Pinnacle wrote:
A bit of advice: The architect's job is not to frustrate the player, or to stop them from finishing the hold. The architect's job is to create an enjoyable challenge. Remember, players aren't obligated to finish a hold. Rooms like this make people quit. From the scroll, it's clear that you're fully aware that this room is tedious, dull, and generally not fun. In that case, why does it exist?

Though I totally agree on this I must say that for a first hold this is not too bad and beginners (aside from that room) might find pretty rewarding finishing this hold.
It's also true that one single room can lower the quality of an hold but in this case I decided to encourage the architect.

____________________________
There's not some other world out there where everything's gonna be okay.
There's just this one, just this rock.
-33th Skywatcher

gavgav123
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 34
Registered: 12-12-2009
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Pinnacle wrote:
A bit of advice: The architect's job is not to frustrate the player, or to stop them from finishing the hold. The architect's job is to create an enjoyable challenge. Remember, players aren't obligated to finish a hold. Rooms like this make people quit. From the scroll, it's clear that you're fully aware that this room is tedious, dull, and generally not fun. In that case, why does it exist? You're not being clever or creative by expecting the player to waste their time running from orb to orb, slogging through a horde of roaches. There's no puzzle here, it's just tedium. Now a repetitive room can be forgiven in an otherwise strong level, but...well....

I really really wasnt trying to frustrate anyone, in fact, that room seemed pretty simple.I wanted to just make a harder version of the room. I didnt think i would lose 2 stars from it

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[Last edited by gavgav123 at 01-29-2014 08:43 PM]

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1129
Registered: 06-10-2004
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In the interest of not being completely negative, the third level was a significant improvement over the other two.

Specific critique:


In retrospect, giving it a 2 was a bit harsh. That end of the scale should probably be reserved for such "masterpieces" as the infamous Sam 8. Revised to a 4, since aside from that one room there are no glaring flaws. That room I ranted about earlier, while certainly not a highlight, wasn't quite as tedious as it seemed at first glance.

The overall structure of the hold is also pretty interesting, completing levels to open up new parts of a main hub adds a fun exploration element.

As far as first holds go, it really isn't bad. For future holds, ask someone to proofread the text though. When the first word of the intro text is misspelled, that changes my approach from a neutral "let's see what this hold is like" viewpoint to a rather cantankerous "let's see what else is wrong" one.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 01-30-2014 12:50 AM]

Panther
Level: Smiter

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Registered: 03-19-2006
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Pinnacle wrote:
[snip...]As far as first holds go, it really isn't bad. For future holds, ask someone to proofread the text though. [snip more]

Someone did offer to do just that.

bomber50
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 872
Registered: 09-18-2006
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I didn't think this hold was *that* bad.

Yes, some proofreading was definitely in order.
Yes, the author's intent to make The Basement: Twice North and Thrice North tedious wasn't good.

But the spelling/grammar is ultimately good enough that you know what the author is trying to say. And The Basement: Twice North I feel is not actually tedious, but rather a fun room. The problem is that Thrice North is essentially a duplicate room of Twice North for some 600+ moves.

I enjoyed the JTRH Level 8 style where by clearing more rooms, you gain access to other rooms in a chaotic way. The rooms are varied enough to not get boring, and the difficulty curve is fairly even.

The Towers: 1S1E was the only room where I found a solution that seemed to be unintended. What the author was going for here, I have absolutely no idea.

I think it's a 6.5 overall with 4.5 brains. But I had to choose either 6 or 7 overall, so I went with 6.

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[Last edited by bomber50 at 02-24-2014 11:11 PM]

martz
Level: Smiter
Rank Points: 414
Registered: 08-19-2005
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I thought this was a decent hold for a first attempt - obviously issues with spelling which is a little bit annoying, especially when you consider there are people on this forum (myself included) who would be quite happy to proof read hold text.

I enjoyed the main level - having to revisit rooms makes things a bit different to the usual linear nature seen in a lot of holds. I agree to some extent regarding the repetitive rooms in the basement level - it would have been better if the longer version was a secret room, but it wasn't too bad. The guard manipulation level was also fun without being too difficult.

Overall this was a decent hold, would be a good choice for someone who's fairly new to the game.

My Verdict:

Difficulty: 4
Fun: 6

____________________________
Without struggle, there is no progress, so get up, get out, and go make the rest of your life the best of your life; you deserve to live the life that YOU want to live...

Progress - Gavin G