Doom
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Tim wrote:
Just let me know if I can remove the demo. I must say, it's not bad, 2 demos in 2 levels

You can remove it if you want... Yep, you've found 2 unintended solutions, I didn't find. But I'll leave that second level (actually it's third level now.) thing as it is.

My project is going very slowly because I've got other things to do. (I'm going to a science camp for a week this weekend )

I've also done one massive hold art project a little.
Currently 16 rooms done of level 4 (I'll make level 2 later)

Tim
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Hey!

I've somehow removed my message, and now Doom's messages has gone as well

Sorry...

So to recap Doom's message: He's a bit busy at the moment. He will leave my unintended solutions.

I say: Don't worry about being slow on your hold, now I have time to make my hold as well, besides if this is really your last hold before JtRH, then you will have a very large hold by the time JtRH is finished

-- Tim

Doom
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I'm going to a science camp and I'm there from this Sunday to next Saturday.

I'll release current 22 rooms of level 4 now, so I can have them tested while I'm gone. Its attached to the first post as usual. or directly here I'll add 3 more rooms after I return and make possible fixes.

It's more difficult than the wraithwing level (maybe too much?)

[Edited by Doom on 09-04-2004 at 04:17 PM GMT]

KevG
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Old business first:

L1 3N2W - I think you've gotten rid of the unintentional solution this time.

L3 2S1W - I almost didn't mention the unintentional solution to this room because I really couldn't see any other way of doing it. Now that I've figured it out, I like the intended solution much better than the other one.

L3 2W - Is this one possible yet?

As far as difficulty goes, I suppose it's possible the rooms I couldn't solve are too difficult. But, I wouldn't say that about the level as a whole or any of the other rooms (including 3W.)

Those are the only three I looked at on those two levels. Were any others changed?

Onto level 4:
I have solved all the rooms except: 1S3W, 1S4W, 2W, and 4W

1S1W -

3S2W -

2S2W - You might want to put a check-point in this one.

3S - I don't see any way of returning north after beating this room.

3W - I managed to solve this one. You'll have to take my word for it since I couldn't solve 2W and I don't know how to record demos in the editor.

1N1W - I had to play this one in the editor due to being unable to solve 2W; I entered from the left bottom entrance. Is there supposed to be some trick to this room? It seems a rather elaborate set-up, but you can walk straight up and kill the queen.

Doom
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Hooray, I've returned.

KevG wrote:
Old business first:

L3 2W - Is this one possible yet?

I just tried it and solved it.

Those are the only three I looked at on those two levels. Were any others changed?

I don't think I changed anything else.

Onto level 4:
1S1W -

Click here to view the secret text

×Is the orb in the lower left-hand corner supposed to be used? My solution didn't use it.

There's only orb in lower right hand corner in this room. I tried to make it necessary but I guess it needs to be adjusted.

3S2W -

Click here to view the secret text

×I assume the orb on the left-hand side that opens the inner set of doors is a trap?

You should hit it first...

2S2W - You might want to put a check-point in this one.

I'll add one.

3S - I don't see any way of returning north after beating this room.

That's not very serious but I'll change it.

3W - I managed to solve this one. You'll have to take my word for it since I couldn't solve 2W and I don't know how to record demos in the editor.

I've solved it too. I just didn't have time to test it in the first hand.

1N1W - I had to play this one in the editor due to being unable to solve 2W; I entered from the left bottom entrance. Is there supposed to be some trick to this room? It seems a rather elaborate set-up, but you can walk straight up and kill the queen.

Now I feel very stupid ...

KevG
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On both 1S1W and 3S2W I said left where I should have said right. Just wanted to make sure it was clear which orb I wasn't using in 3S2W. (Although it probably was already. )

Doom
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Hooray, Let's celebrate the ending of One Word Story! Simon's Dungeon is updated. Added Level 5 and 1 room in level 4 (2N)
20 Rooms of serpent slaying! You'll find it in the first post.

One more thing, Copying the hold deleted all scrolls. Don't report blank scrolls as bugs. They'll be all okay in the final version.

[Edited by Doom at Local Time:09-30-2004 at 05:35 PM]

Doom
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I'm almost done with Simon's Dungeon. (I'll make the last architecture update when it's completely finished.) I want to get it finished, so I don't need to worry about it after JtRH has been released.
I'm going to do about 10-20 more rooms.

Nobody has said anything about level 5, so I'd expect it to be bug-free. Except that it wasn't. I've fixed few things in level 5. It propably doesn't need any other testing anymore...

I dropped second level because I didn't get enough different room ideas with evil eyes.

Tim
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Doom wrote:
Nobody has said anything about level 5, so I'd expect it to be bug-free. Except that it wasn't. I've fixed few things in level 5. It propably doesn't need any other testing anymore...

Doom,
I'm just playing this now. Have you already changed anything on level 5? Should I put my comments on here, or should I wait for your update instead?

-- Tim (sorry, just back from holiday )

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Doom
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Nothing has changed after I sent level 5.
Next update has 7 levels but the last one is only something 4 rooms long.

Tim
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Doom,

Level 5 was really nice, it makes me remember why I hate serpents so much Although if serpents was the theme of that level, I wonder why there were so many serpentless rooms. Maybe it is that I'm not getting used to the blue fake walls, but I have some problems of leaving some rooms. I haven't tested all the rooms yet by the way.

Specific comments for some rooms:

1W : Nice puzzle
1N1W : It took me a while to solve this one, and I find it a very cool puzzle. Hard!
2N1W : Impossible to leave. Also did not understood what the use for the serpent was.
1E : Nice trick. I wanted to use this for some time, but I still do not have enough screens to make a whole level out of this trick.
1E1N,1E2N,1E3N : Very nice set of rooms, lots of walking around. Although I find the ones with roaches more interesting than the last one.
1S1E : Another impossible to leave screen?
2S + 2S1E : I got the hint after I solved that room. Empty Scrolls on 2S1E.
1S2E : Very challenging room. Snake not necessary?

I find this level actually easy. Much easier than the ww or the queen levels. But very fun, and frustrating (I am pulling my hair out at some of the puzzles.)

-- Tim

[Edited by Tim at Local Time:10-20-2004 at 09:49 AM: Sorry, I got a bit mixed up. Changes in bold.]

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Doom
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Could you recheck all coordinates Tim? Some of those don't exist and at least 1W doesn't have mimics. Hmm... in 1S2E the snake is indeed not required to kill the roaches.

Doom
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Ok, I got it now. I already had noted the empty scrolls and no return in 2N1W but I didn't see no return in 1S1E. I removed the scrolls in 2S1E because I didn't know anything clever to write in them...

There's currently 15 rooms in the level but there's quite a bit of rooms with no as well.

Doom
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Update

All rooms finished. All scrolls fixed. All descriptions written. Pretty close to final version. Now I only need some testing to see if there are any bugs left.

I've already removed the warp room but the hold is currently anyone edit so you can mess with and add it by yourself if you want.

There are also a few new rooms in earlier levels.
New version in the first post.

[Edited by Doom at Local Time:10-26-2004 at 06:20 PM]

Stefan
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I took a quick look at the hold in the editor and there are some bugs that haven't been fixed:
L3 3S: (actually, the bug is in 2S) You still cannot return to the north (left exit).
L3 1S4W: It's possible to kill all monsters in this room, but you can't exit afterwards.

Both bugs make the level impossible to complete, and as there may be more similar bugs, I'd advise you to put the warp stairs back (during testing).

There's also some minor bugs, but I'll report them later (Edit: Well, ok, you get one to go: L5 4N1E is trivial - kill the mother with the mimic).

Oh, and another thing: you might want to change the hold description...

[Edited by Stefan at Local Time:10-27-2004 at 04:51 AM: added bug]

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Doom
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Fixed Stefan's bugs and made a small update with the warp room.

Stefan
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Ok, I've played through the hold and here's what I've found:

Edit: I can zip my demos and send them to you if you want to look at them.

First Level:
1S3E: Why is this room here on this level? It doesn't fit into the theme, as it doesn't have a single roach in it.
1N2E: Is the last orb (the one that toggles the long door) meant to toggle? (It doesn't have to)
2E: Empty scroll (SE)

Second Level:
1E: The mimic makes this room trivial.
2E: I only needed one of the trapdoor-loops to get the wraithwing out.
1N2E: This was a fun room. It was clear what had to be done, but it took some figuring to find out how to do it.
2S: What are the roaches for? I solved this room by

Third Level:
1S2W: Annoying.
1N1W: Empty scroll.
2N: It felt too easy to be intended... I solved it by
1N2W: The eye has no real purpose, as you can kill it even if it gets trapped by the force-arrow.

Fourth Level:

1S1W: I'm not sure if I did the NW part as intended.
1S: This seems kind of intended, but anyway,
2S: Why not 400 or something (less waiting)? Every room except one in KDD can be completed in less moves than it's set to now.

Fifth Level:
1N1E: Empty scroll.
1S: Impossible to exit because of the wrongly defined orb in the south.
2N3E: It's possible to complete this room without making the tar in the second section grow.
1N: I'm not sure what the tar in the middle is for, it's pretty easy to take the north path.
3N2E: I like this room. Reminds me of Bavato's... Why is it unrequired? Too difficult?
1E: There's no checkpoint beside the stairs (as in the other levels, except L6 and L7 (but they aren't really needed there)).

Sixth Level:
1S: I'm not sure if this is unintended, but I had 3 moves to spare when going for the mother.


Overall it was a good hold. A bit more difficult than your previous ones, but I like it that way.

[Edited by Stefan at Local Time:10-29-2004 at 12:41 PM]

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Doom
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Get ready for a very long post.

Stefan wrote:
I can zip my demos and send them to you if you want to look at them.

No need to, I'll see what's wrong in those rooms.

First Level:
1S3E: Why is this room here on this level? It doesn't fit into the theme, as it doesn't have a single roach in it.

Hmm... No idea Moved to serpent level.

1N2E: Is the last orb (the one that toggles the long door) meant to toggle? (It doesn't have to)

It's meant to toggle mr. Efficiency

Second Level:
1E: The mimic makes this room trivial.

Changed it a little

2E: I only needed one of the trapdoor-loops to get the wraithwing out.

Mentioned already in this thread. It's not big problem, I'll leave it as it is.

2S: What are the roaches for? I solved this room by

Click here to view the secret text

×trapping the wraithwing on the force arrow just beside the door. When you open the door you just have to lead the wraithwing to you.

Changed this room a little.

Third Level:
1S2W: Annoying.

Ok, That seems to be true. I don't have any really smart ideas. Removed spawning from 6 roaches to 4 roaches.

2N: It felt too easy to be intended... I solved it by

Click here to view the secret text

×leaving the northernmost trapdoors, and then dropping the others by going downwards, alternating between the two sides, and killing the queen on the way down

Removed unintended solution and added optional variation of the same room.

1N2W: The eye has no real purpose, as you can kill it even if it gets trapped by the force-arrow.

That kind of things happen. Fixed.

Fourth Level:

1S1W: I'm not sure if I did the NW part as intended.

Click here to view the secret text

×I had the wraithwing with me.

But you don't have it with you anymore.

1S: This seems kind of intended, but anyway,

Click here to view the secret text

×you can kill all serpents in the south exit before releasing the queen

Actually it's not intended. Fixed.

2S: Why not 400 or something (less waiting)? Every room except one in KDD can be completed in less moves than it's set to now.

It was supposed to be a lot less but my calculations failed. I made the "goal" position first and counted the serpent loop lenghts and calculated them to set up starting position. I'll try to change it...

Fifth Level:
1S: Impossible to exit because of the wrongly defined orb in the south.

Added a trapdoor path under the 2 doors.

2N3E: It's possible to complete this room without making the tar in the second section grow.

Fixed

1N: I'm not sure what the tar in the middle is for, it's pretty easy to take the north path.

It shouldn't be. I tested it quickly and couldn't find a place where you can kill a roach every turn and proceed farther at the same time. I'll change it.

3N2E: I like this room. Reminds me of Bavato's... Why is it unrequired? Too difficult?

It's one of the more difficult rooms in the level. And there are many not required rooms in the hold anyway. But I never go to next level before I've done every room first. (Bavato's L7 being a minor exception. It was too difficult for me.)

Sixth Level:
1S: I'm not sure if this is unintended, but I had 3 moves to spare when going for the mother.

...And mr. Efficiency strikes again. I'll shorten the timer by 3 then
I deleted the remaining blank scrolls because I have no idea what I wrote in them before

Thanks of the feedback! It was really helpful!