Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
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Thanks, I should have time to do some fixing this week.

____________________________
= Radiant =

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

In the meantime, I think I may have a good guess as to the cause of the "units moving on their own" thing I've mentioned every so often in the past; I think there might be a bug somewhere in the routine(s) that look for multi-turn movement. I'm not planning on posting a save file, since it's repeatable.

First, make sure multi-turn movement is turned off. Select one of your units, and then click on a space that would take more than one turn to reach. It's kind of rare, but sometimes when you begin the next turn, the unit will move towards the destination you selected the previous turn.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

File: Multiturn_move.ley (16.5 KB)
Downloaded 56 times.
License: Public Domain

^^-- Here is a savegame showing the bug you mentioned, Mystic. When you load this savegame, the diplomat moves automatically, while multiturn movement has been disabled.

I also have a whole bunch of other savegames and bugreports, but I don't want to clog the forum, so I'll send the rest by email this weekend.

---

[Last edited by grobblewobble at 03-27-2010 04:42 PM]

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

I have a few suggestions!

Okay, so when you're setting up the game, it's kinda hard to figure out what button does what (I still get messed up from time to time, because I look at what I want to change, versus the first letter of the option). So, what if the hotkey was underlined, while the option that would be changed was a nice green color? It would go from:

O Terrain is sloping

to:

O Terrain is sloping



Secondly, I remember reading somewhere that you wanted to have a randomized list of city names that didn't sound quite like gibberish, but couldn't because of potential copyright issues? One way you could change the name generator is to have a list of 25-30 prefixes and suffixes for each race, and it picks a pair of them for a city. Each race would have different lists, so they could keep specific connotations. There could also be generalized lists as well, so it picks from the current race or these, allowing a large variety between races.

For examples, regency could have prefixes like black, or death and suffixes like watch or gyre, while elves could have prefixes such as ever and peace, and suffixes like bloom or thrive. This would lead to combinations such as Blackwatch, Deathgyre, Everbloom, or Peacethrive. If you played an alliance race, it would combine these race lists, so you could get stuff like Blackbloom, Peacedeath, or Deaththrive. Those kinds of names just seem more memorable than 20 towns named 'Quibixjib' (bonus points: have a list for terrain, so whatever tile the city is built on has a potential name, like -vale for hills, or -tor for mountains)

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

If you're playing an alliance of Regency/Dwarves, and have auto select next unit enabled, when you tell a lumberjack to fell trees, it will also tell a miner to find resource. This is because they share the same hotkey, and apparently it applies it to the next unit automatically.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
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Danjen02 wrote:
One way you could change the name generator is to have a list of 25-30 prefixes and suffixes for each race, and it picks a pair of them for a city. Each race would have different lists, so they could keep specific connotations.

This is an excellent idea.

____________________________
= Radiant =

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

I tried playing as an alliance race with spheres of body/mind/chaos, and set revelation to F1. I press F1 to cast it, and 2 turns later, it casts restless dead. This has happened to me twice in one game.

Don't have a savegame, because it's via email with Grobble, but it should be repeatable.

Edit: We each take two turns in a row, and the cause seems to be if I queue up a spell, then pass the game over to Grobble, and if it finishes casting on te first turn, it will be the wrong one.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

---

[Last edited by Danjen02 at 04-01-2010 07:25 PM]

Radiant
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grobblewobble wrote:
Oh, one more bug: flying units prefer travelling by road, even though this not result in faster movement. (right?) This can sometimes result in suboptimal pathways.

It is correct that flying speed isn't cumulative with road bonuses (although e.g. pegariders may run faster than they fly, on certain terrain).

If you see supoptimal paths, please send me a save.

Wowbagger wrote:
I get the little window saying 'windows is searching for a solution' and then the message 'a problem caused the program to stop working correctly. Windows will close the program and notify you if a solution is available'

Yeah, a crash is a bug. Windows isn't actually searching for a solution though, that's just its interface lying to you. I'll see what I can do.


____________________________
= Radiant =

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[Last edited by Radiant at 04-01-2010 09:19 PM]

weirdsc3
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 10
Registered: 04-01-2010
IP: Logged

Hi, Leylines is a great game but i have this one problem with it.

I installed the latest version on a fresh windows xp installation and my problem is that when i start a new game the combat is always automatic but if i download one of the save games posted on this forum then the combat is done manually, so is there a way to turn the automatic combat off ? I searched these forums for similar problems and found a thread about the beta version and there it said that in the mirror screen there is a option to turn automatic combat off but i dont see the option in this latest version.

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

Radiant wrote:

grobblewobble wrote:
Oh, one more bug: flying units prefer travelling by road, even though this not result in faster movement. (right?) This can sometimes result in suboptimal pathways.

It is correct that flying speed isn't cumulative with road bonuses (although e.g. pegariders may run faster than they fly, on certain terrain).

If you see supoptimal paths, please send me a save.

I've had this happen many times; it's easily repeatable.

Build a road/moonpath connecting two cities, preferably with a mountain chain in between, but don't build anything on the mountains themselves. Optionally, you may also want to cast Ethereal Path on the road/moonpath to ensure it's always the optimal route for non-flying units. Then, send a flying unit from one city to the other; unless you have the unit move one tile at a time, it will always follow the road/moonpath/ethereal path at a cost of 2 movement per tile, despite the fact that it's more optimal for flying units to simply fly over the mountains.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

---

[Last edited by The Mystic at 04-02-2010 01:51 AM]

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

File: Flying_ethereal.ley (14.4 KB)
Downloaded 52 times.
License: Public Domain

Here is a savegame for the flying / pathway thing. The Ornithopter is standing on an ethereal path. If you move it along the path, you'll see he is using 2 movement points for every step.

Now there is a ghoul standing on a monastery to the SE. Order the 'thopter to go to the space two tiles below the monastery to see an example of a suboptimal path.

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

File: Movement_water.ley (14.3 KB)
Downloaded 54 times.
License: Public Domain

Here is a totally different suboptimal path. Order the Guardian to move to the city to the south. Instead of taking the shortest route (straight line), it will move SW.

edit:

weirdsc3 wrote:
I installed the latest version on a fresh windows xp installation and my problem is that when i start a new game the combat is always automatic but if i download one of the save games posted on this forum then the combat is done manually, so is there a way to turn the automatic combat off ? I searched these forums for similar problems and found a thread about the beta version and there it said that in the mirror screen there is a option to turn automatic combat off but i dont see the option in this latest version.

Are you playing games on random maps or predefined maps? One player?

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[Last edited by grobblewobble at 04-02-2010 09:52 AM]

weirdsc3
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 10
Registered: 04-01-2010
IP: Logged

grobblewobble wrote:



Are you playing games on random maps or predefined maps? One player?

Yes one player on predefined maps and now that i tried it with random maps the manual combat works so thanks

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

File: Seismic Glitch.ley (21.8 KB)
Downloaded 52 times.
License: Public Domain

I found a glitch with Seismic Reorganizer. Rivers can't be moved by this spell, but springs and river deltas can. Attached is a save file illustrating this; I moved both types of tiles just south of Zalval.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Danjen -- Grobble reports you have an issue with a hero that cannot move. Could it be that this game was created with the October 5th version? Because this appears to be a bug fixed in January, RC3.

Also, regarding the issue where Goblin's Curse turned into Great Harvest and Revelation turned into Restless Dead, er, well, that's pretty weird. Can you tell me if it's a one-time occurence? Because if I play a few turns on from that saved game, I get no repetition of the issue. To fix this I would need to reproduce it somehow, the savegame only shows me that it has happened. Could it be that you're not running the same version of the game?

____________________________
= Radiant =

---

[Last edited by Radiant at 04-07-2010 04:55 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Note: assassins do not trigger when in guard mode. Otherwise, if a raven or scout would walk by, the assassin would kill it and also remove itself, which probably isn't what the player wants. This applies to any unit with an ability that removes itself.

Locust swarms (and arsonists and torchers) cannot ravage a swamp. This is because swamps aren't mutable, and only mutable land can be ravaged. To put it differently, swamps don't burn.

Polymorph should generate only units that can survive in the spot in question; so casting it on a group of units in the water shouldn't cause them to all drown. Do you have a save of that?

A three-square-away fortress only counts as supplied as long as you park a caravan there, fyi.

I have been unable to duplicate the multi-turn move bug so far. The savegame only shows that it happened, not when it happens.

Regarding the ornithopter and ethereal path, the error was that the 'thopter's movement points were reduced by too much! Ethereal path should cost one point to cross, even for fliers.

Danjen02 wrote:
Okay, so when you're setting up the game, it's kinda hard to figure out what button does what (I still get messed up from time to time, because I look at what I want to change, versus the first letter of the option). So, what if the hotkey was underlined, while the option that would be changed was a nice green color?

The hotkey is always the first letter. I'm not convinced your suggestion would make things clearer, and I would prefer to avoid colored fonts throughout the game.

____________________________
= Radiant =

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[Last edited by Radiant at 04-07-2010 05:02 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

weirdsc3 wrote:
I searched these forums for similar problems and found a thread about the beta version and there it said that in the mirror screen there is a option to turn automatic combat off but i dont see the option in this latest version.

It depends on your settings when you start the game. When you start a new game, there's an option "detailed combat allowed". If this is disabled, then you will not be able to turn off automatic combat.

____________________________
= Radiant =

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

Radiant wrote:
Can you tell me if it's a one-time occurence?
[snip]
Could it be that you're not running the same version of the game?

Not a one-time occurence. Versions could have something to do with it; I'm running the version from january 2010.

Radiant wrote:
When you start a new game, there's an option "detailed combat allowed".

Actually, in the latest version this option is missing when you start a one player game (but not when you start a multiplayer game).

I will see if I can come up with a better savegame for the multiturn movement.

Regarding supply and forts, you can find an example of a supplied fort without caravan in the savegame "allianceview".

With Polymorph, I've seen units with diving being generated on land, but haven't tested units in water, so that was speculation on my part.

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

Radiant wrote:
Note: assassins do not trigger when in guard mode. Otherwise, if a raven or scout would walk by, the assassin would kill it and also remove itself, which probably isn't what the player wants. This applies to any unit with an ability that removes itself.

I'm trying to think of another such unit.. is there one?

Anyhow, this probably belongs in the balance thread, but I disagree that a player wouldn't want this. After all, if the player doesn't want it, he should use the Camp option. As it stands, there's no difference between guard and camp, so the guard mode is redundant. Assassinating the first unit that walks by can be a good idea (not to mention a nasty surprise), if your opponent has very fast units that would otherwise escape (or storm run!).

edit:
About ethereal path, I guess this means there's going to be no difference between ethereal path and normal roads on plains, correct?

---

[Last edited by grobblewobble at 04-07-2010 06:06 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

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grobblewobble wrote:
About ethereal path, I guess this means there's going to be no difference between ethereal path and normal roads on plains, correct?

I'll have to check, but ethereal path could still be 1/2 of a "step".

Regarding Tireless - capturing a city with no unit in it doesn't count as combat, so doesn't prevent units from moving on.

Regarding Siegecraft - what makes you think it doesn't work?

____________________________
= Radiant =

---

[Last edited by Radiant at 04-07-2010 09:35 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Okay, RC5 is online! Thanks everyone for your feedback!

Changelog is as follows,
Ore Refinery no longer increases gold (was 1). Upkeep for Cloudship and War Machine 6 (was 5), Slayer 5 (was 4), Hydra 8 (was 9). Cost for Shapeshifter 60 (was 70), Scavenger 2 turns (was 3). Health for Battleship 12 (was 10), Locust 7 (was 9). Relentless defense 6 (was 5). Assassin triggers when on guard. Plague and poison events no longer affect units with immunity. Architect, talent, and fire events no longer affect captured cities, nor does Aid Production. Storm Run no longer affects carrier units. Mind Shield cancels Insanity. Polymorph can't make aquatic units. Vampirism removes effects that undead are immune to. Major Cancellation removes blight. Seismic Reorganizer no longer affects springs and deltas. Misery is now a global enchantment. Xaos now affects swimming units, and gives +2 movement. Ratyva affects roadbuilding. Thazuun bonus 33% (was 50%). Bulky penalties no longer apply to flying units. Can no longer levy in unhappy cities. Doubled penalties for lack of mana. Fix revenant ability, and becoming undead removes elite skill. Fix hang in hotseat combat. Fix message for trap death, rust attack, Tradint Post, and Lightning Strike. Fix treating Toxic Touch as a spell. Fix map cursor jumping. Fix spell interruption by combat. Fix stronghold granting Ranger skill. Fix disabled multi-turn movement. Fix movement cost for flying units over roads, and for water. Fix combat in third-party city. Fix updating sight ranges after Cancellation. Fix catch-22 in combat. Fix loss if no cities left. Fix textbox interfering with combat. Update hidden status after terrain mod. AI should take Tempest Ward and random resources into account, and won't pick Alliance. Whew!

What's left are the two graphical bugs for Windows 7 (which I have been unable to reproduce so far), the movement bug (which requires further thought) and the race-dependent city names.


____________________________
= Radiant =

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[Last edited by Radiant at 04-07-2010 10:14 PM]

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

File: Siegecraft.ley (8.9 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

Wow, this is great news, well done!

Radiant wrote:
Regarding Siegecraft - what makes you think it doesn't work?

I did several tests, with and without siegecraft. For an example, see this savegame. Attack the city with the swordsmen, with and without the hero, but do not engage the hero in combat until last. I have a strong impression that siegecraft works on the unit itself, but not on the rest of the stack.

"Bulky penalties no longer apply to flying units." - I love it!

edit, one more bug: cities with sight range 3 also have supply range 3.

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[Last edited by grobblewobble at 04-08-2010 11:12 AM]

LesserMinion
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 10
Registered: 04-08-2010
IP: Logged

File: Mysterious_defeat.ley (9.7 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

Hi.

I've been playing for a while, but this is the first time I've posted anything here.

I've just updated to the new RC, and it looks like something's wrong with the victory conditions.

I'm playing goblins, and as soon as I finish up movement and end the turn, I lose. As far as I'm aware, nobody has abjuration yet, or any grand monoliths. And I don't think anyone's in any position to wipe out my tribes either.

I also tried out the rc5 tutorial, and it seems to have a similar problem.

I also have a question: how does the game actually use the combat stats for a unit? Is it something like "Damage = AttackRoll + Attack - Defence", or is it more complicated?

As a couple of minor requests: could the health indicator on mousing over a unit be more precise? Since each heart looks to actually represent something like 10 hitpoints, it could be pretty handy (although the number of chunks is referenced in some of the documentation, such as the description of poison).

There's another minor issue where the goblin unit training screen, hero selection screen, and other similar screens show a 0/0 health indicator. Would it be possible to suppress that?

Aside from all that, this is a pretty awesome piece of work. I discovered it some time after being introduced to AGS through Yahtzee's games, and discovering AToTK there.

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[Last edited by LesserMinion at 04-08-2010 03:01 AM]

Danjen02
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-08-2007
IP: Logged

Question about flying units: will it ever be changed so that they use 2 units of movement only if it's the best way to move? It's annoying that ground units on an ethereal path can move like 7+ hexes a turn, but fliers are stuck at 2-3 regardless.

Oh, and I think there was a typo in the description for the Daemon.

____________________________
SubTerra
- Ultimate rank
- 2009 level design contest, 2nd place

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Danjen02 wrote:
Question about flying units: will it ever be changed so that they use 2 units of movement only if it's the best way to move?

Yes, because that's what they're intended to do.

____________________________
= Radiant =

The Mystic
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 18
Registered: 09-20-2006
IP: Logged

Radiant wrote:
What's left are the two graphical bugs for Windows 7 (which I have been unable to reproduce so far), the movement bug (which requires further thought) and the race-dependent city names.

For a little more variety with city names, you could also include geography-based names, both as generic names and (optionally) in conjunction with race dependency.

In any case, it's a good idea to continue to let players make their own names for cities; my father tends to name his cities after local towns or world capitals, or geography-based names.

____________________________
Either I'm crazy, or everybody else is nuts. And I know I'm not crazy because the little man who lives on my shoulder told me so.
If people don't think there's something wrong with you, there's something wrong with you.
Oh well. Another day, another dementia.

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

File: OreRefinery.ley (17.1 KB)
Downloaded 52 times.
License: Public Domain

This savegame demonstrates three issues:

- the Ore Refinery does not add a bonus to production, as
you can see in one of the dwarf towns

- the AI casts Might of Giants on units with magical attack,
such as the liches here

- more generally, the AI builds large armies but does not attack
with them, or at least not enough. This savegame is a good
example. At the beginning of the turn, the AI has an army of 4
liches next to an undefended city, but does not attack that city.
instead, the liches even retreat. I think this is because the AI
tries to fill the stack up to 6 units first, but that really
should not have priority here.. I realize that this is something
that could take a lot of thought/work to fix properly.

edit: another thing with the AI is that it never seems to build daemons when playing Regency. There may be something wrong with the tech strategy.

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[Last edited by grobblewobble at 04-11-2010 09:20 AM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

LesserMinion wrote:
I also have a question: how does the game actually use the combat stats for a unit? Is it something like "Damage = AttackRoll + Attack - Defence",

Yes. The attack roll is 4d6, in case you were wondering.

As a couple of minor requests: could the health indicator on mousing over a unit be more precise? Since each heart looks to actually represent something like 10 hitpoints,

Each heart represents two hit points.

There's another minor issue where the goblin unit training screen, hero selection screen, and other similar screens show a 0/0 health indicator.

I'm not seeing this, actually.

grobblewobble wrote:
- the Ore Refinery does not add a bonus to production, as
you can see in one of the dwarf towns

Actually, it does add the bonus, but it isn't shown in the resource breakdown. Still a bug, but a visual one.


____________________________
= Radiant =

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[Last edited by Radiant at 04-12-2010 08:56 PM]

Radiant
Level: Moderator

Rank Points: 142
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Okay, that one had enough weird issues to warrant an immediate next release.

Changelog for RC6,
Sunbeam doesn't counter building effects. Archipelago capitals start with a Leyline. Forging Flame and Spellshaping now check for legal targets. Fix S'Sirthe cities starting with road. Fix unseen cities interacting with Visions. Fix sight range boosts increasing magesight or supplies. Fix display for Ore Refinery. Fix goblins losing a city to revolt. Fix tutorial. Fix siegecraft. Fix major AI bug. Fix coastline for unknown terrain. Add racial city naming.

Thank you for the feedback

____________________________
= Radiant =

grobblewobble
Level: Roachling

Rank Points: 11
Registered: 11-23-2007
IP: Logged

File: crash_new.ley (15 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

Great!

Radiant wrote:
Fix major AI bug.

I'm curious what has been fixed, precisely. Let's see if the AI can beat me at Archmage now.

EDIT: wow, those racial city names are really cool!
EDIT2: see savegame, a crash
EDIT3: bugreport: when playing in windowed mode, the minimap
remains blank and when viewing a unit, the shields look weird.
EDIT4: another game crashed, likely it's the same bug as in the
attached game. It looks like this bug is highly intrusive.

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[Last edited by grobblewobble at 04-14-2010 06:36 AM]