TripleM
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Its just a normal park. Although it could easily have applied to a fun park as well. Thats not too important. (Have you realised why your answer wouldn't work, rowrow? Its quite an important point.)

eytanz
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TripleM wrote:

rowrow wrote:
It does make sence. It says that you can't bring tin or a certain metal into the park and he was a robot made out of it. But if that's not the answer you are looking for...

[Edited by rowrow at Local Time:11-12-2004 at 08:31 PM]

No - as I said, read the question closely. Your answer does not fit the conditions.

I think the specific condition Rowrow's answer doesn't fit is that John is supposed to be a man, not a robot.

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Mattcrampy
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Heh heh heh heh...

The sign says "Refuse to go in the bin" - the sign makers obviously mean 'rubbish', but then, that's why the word rubbish was invented.

Matt

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TripleM
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Thats the one. Rowrows idea of course didn't work as the man would then *not* be carrying out the instruction given on the sign - when I clearly said he *always* follows instructions

wackhead_uk
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Can I post a puzzle? I've never done it before...

One day, John and Jeff were having a race to Jeff's house from the park. Jeff won, because although he was not as fit, his bike as better. At Jeff's house, John's mum rang from John's house and said that there was a cake for them! Yum! So she said that the first bike to arrive back at the house would get the most. John complained, because he was much slower, so John's mum said that the bike to arrive last at the house would get the most cake.

Of course, John and Jeff started cycling reeeeally slowly back to John's house, until the point where they both stopped. They both got off their bikes, and agreed that they were getting nowhere. After a minute or two of discussion, they got back on their bikes and cycled as fast as they could to John's house.

Why did they do this?

Doom
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There wouldn't be any cake left for the last person in goal?

Schik
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They got on each other's bikes and rode them as fast as they could, so their own bike would get there last. But that's irrelevant, since it's Mattcrampy's turn for a puzzle.

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Mattcrampy
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I'm fairly sure this one hasn't been done.

Congratulations! You've beaten out the carry-over champ and some chump that never buzzed in, and now you're at the bonus stage at the very end of the show. The host, who only thinks he's got better things in store for him, presents you with a dilemma: the NEW CAR is behind one of three shutters, and you have to guess which one. There's no clues, and the shutters are identical, except for minor details like different colours and so forth. Nothing useful, in any case.

But! Once you've made your decision, the host will open up a shutter that doesn't contain the keys to your NEW CAR. He'll then give you to chance to switch doors, and then, and only then, will you open up your shutter.

Should you switch? And how do you arrive at this conclusion?

Matt

Edit: Woo! Longer than an hour!

[Edited by Mattcrampy at Local Time:11-14-2004 at 02:22 AM]

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AlefBet
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I've analyzed this one already, so I invoke the 24 hour rule.

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mrimer
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Should you switch? And how do you arrive at this conclusion?

Ooh, this is a good one. It will knock your socks off!

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wackhead_uk
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Wait, I know it too. Am I allowed to post the answer and then claim my last puzzle as the response to this one, so that everyone is happy?

Mattcrampy
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If you knew it from beforehand, you can't post the answer unless it's clear no-one else knows it. In that case, Alefbet would get it.

If you've reasoned it out beforehand, you're probably wrong.

Matt

[Edited by Mattcrampy at Local Time:11-14-2004 at 04:21 PM: Schik and Alefbet are two different people. Probably.]

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DiMono
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I remember reading about this one somewhere, and the explanation blew my mind. Good choice of puzzle.

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wackhead_uk
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I still don't completely understand it, but yes, I was confuzzled by it.

agaricus5
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Do we assume that the keys are in the car?

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DiMono
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If you want, but it's not really relevant to the solution...

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rowrow
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TripleM wrote:
Thats the one. Rowrows idea of course didn't work as the man would then *not* be carrying out the instruction given on the sign - when I clearly said he *always* follows instructions

Well even a normal robot wouldn't want to kill itself.

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Tim
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I am just wondering if anyone really does not know the solution to the current "puzzle". It is probably older than I am.

In a real life situation, I know it does not matter whether I switch or not, as I always have very bad luck anyway.

-- Tim

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wackhead_uk
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Presenter: So, which door do you choose?
Contestant: The one with the car, please.

This is a derirative from a far side cartoon.

agaricus5
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wackhead_uk wrote:
Presenter: So, which door do you choose?
Contestant: The one with the car, please.

If that's the solution, this is a very unfair puzzle. I suppose the built-in assumption is that the presenter can't just tell you which shutter contains the car, but it would be pretty silly if this assumption is not applicable.

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Fafnir
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It's not the solution - this has nothing to do with lateral thinking. I've seen this before as well, although I admit I can't remember the proof.

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Scott
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I've seen it before and theres a really easy way to show the proof.

AlefBet
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He should change his selection after being told one of the wrong choices.

When he first selected a door, he had a one in three chance that he was right. The host subsequently revealing one of the wrong answers does not change the odds on his first choice since the host would not have chosen either the correct door or the currently selected one. Therefore, the odds on that door are still 1/3. Since now there is only one other possible door, its odds are 2/3, and he should choose that one with the better odds.

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Scott
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If that doesn't convince you imagine there were 100 doors and after you picked one the host opened 98 incorrect doors.

Rabscuttle
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agaricus5 wrote:
Do we assume that the keys are in the car?

DiMono wrote:
If you want, but it's not really relevant to the solution...

Actually, it is... (if you're pedantic)

Mattcrampy wrote:
...presents you with a dilemma: the NEW CAR is behind one of three shutters, and you have to guess which one. There's no clues, and the shutters are identical, except for minor details like different colours and so forth. Nothing useful, in any case.

But! Once you've made your decision, the host will open up a shutter that doesn't contain the keys to your NEW CAR...

The door that the host opens could contain the car, but not the keys. In which case you would still want to switch, but to the open door. But you would have to hotwire the car in order to drive it.

erm.. yeah

[Edited by Rabscuttle at Local Time:11-15-2004 at 05:56 AM: quotes leave too much space]

Mattcrampy
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Well, we all know that they never actually give you the NEW CAR that they show you on the show. They give you a car that hasn't been sat in night after night. Whichever door has the 'car' behind it wins, whether or it's represented by a set of keys or the car itself. I wasn't that clear.

But Alefbet has it. Although I'm personally waiting for someone to go, hang on, it's fifty-fifty, so we can actually get an explanation people understand.

Matt

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AlefBet
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Hang on, it's fifty-fifty!

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eytanz
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Mattcrampy wrote:
But Alefbet has it. Although I'm personally waiting for someone to go, hang on, it's fifty-fifty, so we can actually get an explanation people understand.
Matt

Here's a quick explanation:

- Lets imagine the doors are labelled 1, 2 and 3.
- Since the doors are otherwise identical, lets say you choose door #1.
- The car has a 1/3 chance of being behind door #1, a 1/3 chance of being behind door #2, and a 1/3 chance of being behind door #3.
-- If the car was behind door #1, then the host can either open door #2 or door #3. Either way, the remaining door will not contain a car behind it. Therefore, if the car was behind door #1, switching will make you lose.
-- If the car was behind door #2, then the host can't open door #1 (because you chose it), nor door #2 (because that will reveal the car). He must open door #3. If he does so, switching makes you choose door #2, and you get the car.
-- If the car was behind door #3, then the host can't open door #1 (because you chose it), nor door #3 (because that will reveal the car). He must open door #2. If he does so, switching makes you choose door #3, and you get the car.

So, if the car was behind door #1 switching makes you lose, and behind doors #2 and #3 switching makes you win. So switching is twice as likely to make you win as not switching.

The same logic applies if you choose doors #2 or #3.

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AlefBet
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Okay, next puzzle, I guess. (Another homegrown one, so forgive the lack of polish.)

There's a fellow with rather unusual tastes who has composed a favorite recipe that calls for the following ingredients:

1 tsp granulated sugar
2 cups flour
3 pinches salt
4 tbsp baking powder
5 quarts milk
6 eggs
7 cubes margarine
8 fl oz water
9 cloves garlic
10 tbsp brown sugar

However, this version of the recipe is not the original version. It has been repeated (e.g. doubled, tripled, quadrupled...). By what amount has it been repeated?

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Oneiromancer
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Eytan, your explanation of this "conundrum" is the best one I've ever seen. Kudos!

Game on,

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