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eytanz wrote:
I think Dimono was referring Argaricus's puzzle - solving it required skills I personally do not possess. I don't mind, as long as those don't become the norm.

Oh. Right. D'oh. Yeah, I agree that that one was somewhat complicated. I basically agree with you, though, it's okay as long as it doesn't become the norm.

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zzyzx
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1
11
21
1211
...

This is one of those "really well known" sequence puzzles. What happens if most people know the solution of a puzzle? Do we wait for someone who has never seen it to answer, or do we move on? It'd be pretty funny if nobody guessed at the puzzle because everyone knew it... It might even be viewed as the hardest puzzle ever, though after the May Underwood puzzle, i'd seriously doubt that.

Nillo
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I have'nt heard that puzzle before.

Is the solution


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Oneiromancer
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zzyzx wrote:
What happens if most people know the solution of a puzzle? Do we wait for someone who has never seen it to answer, or do we move on?

Man, am I supposed to just re-quote the rules in their entirety today?

3. If you have heard the answer before please wait 24 hours before posting it. Part of the fun of this will be solving a new puzzle for yourself, we don't want all the puzzles to be spoiled right away for everyone. If no one seems to be able to solve it (or even get close) then go ahead and answer. Exceptions might be made for really old puzzles that everyone knows, but in that case I'd rather see posts like "I know this one, everyone does, can I please say the answer?" to establish your place, and then we'll see if everyone agrees.

Game on,

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zzyzx
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Man, am I supposed to just re-quote the rules in their entirety today?

Look, you're having an impact...I have read the rules and been edumacated...

Scott
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Since I have seen it before I can tell you thats not the answer Nillo.

Edit: I saw this puzzle is a great book "The Cuckoos Egg". A true story about hacking. Its a good read.

[Edited by Scott on 04-14-2004 at 11:22 PM GMT]

zzyzx
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Scott, i've seen two seperate methods for generating a series like the one above.

Either would probably be technically right.

Scott
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Ok I only knew of 1 way this was done so we will have to see what gds says.

RoboBob3000
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Not being familiar with the puzzle before hand, here's my guess:



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DiMono
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I'll go with 1231, because it looks like the larger numbers get processed first

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RubellaGolda
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1
11
21
1211

and then

and so on

If this is correct, I would say that it was unjust to say that Nillo's guess was wrong; he got the spirit of the answer and the given sequence does not give enough information to distinguish between his solution and this one. I think I like Nillo's solution better, because it is more elegant (but that's just a matter of taste.)

gds
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Yes, RubellaGold got it.

While Nillo's guess makes sense and close to the answer, I'm not sure it can be accepted. His method does not have any logic in the ordering of the numbers. By his reasoning, 1231 would also be right. How do you decide which is right ?

Nillo
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Well, I just took the numbers in the order they appear.
That way, it'll look like this:
1
11
21
1211
3112
132112
311322
and so on.

With my logic there is only one solution.
But if RubellaGolda's got a good puzzle, go ahead and post it.

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RubellaGolda
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A hold construction worker has some prototype fuses for the new-fangled bomb thingies. Each fuse, when lighted, burns for one hour exactly, but the burning speed is not constant (so half of the fuse may burn up in ten minutes, after which the other half takes fifty minutes) and different for each fuse.

The pie that he makes himself for lunch has to go into the oven for three quarters of an hour, and of course he forgot his watch and oven timer.

Can he measure the baking time using the fuses? If so, how? and what is the minimum number of fuses he needs?

DiMono
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2 fuses. Light one from both ends, and the other from only one end. When the first one extinguishes, half an hour will have passed, so you light the other end of the second fuse, which will burn for 15 more minutes.


Let's play a game. Here I have three rows of balls.

  O O O
 O O O O
O O O O O

Let's take turns removing any number of balls from one row, so for instance you could remove 1 to 5 balls from the bottom row on your very first turn. The person left with the last ball at the end loses. You go first. Can you force a win?

[Edited by DiMono on 04-16-2004 at 12:45 PM GMT]

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TripleM
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Ah. If someone thought the last puzzle about numbers was famous, then this is about the most famous game in puzzle history

eytanz
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Yup. I'd post the answer, given that the 24-hour period is over, but I don't have a new puzzle nor an idea for one.

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Koro
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Ah, the famous game of NIM. There is a secret of NIM which forces wins a given player given an arbitrarily large number of piles with an arbitrarily large number of balls, but to keep that precious secret truly secret (some weird impulse), I will answer specific to this puzzle:

take two from the top row giving your opponent 1 4 5
whatever your opponent does you can take so that you are left with 1 2 3, 4 4, 1 1 1, or 1. Do so. If 4 4, match his move on the way down until he clears a pile in which case you leave 1 in the remaining pile for him, or if he leaves 1, clear the other pile. If 1 2 3, he takes, you take to get it to 2 2, 1 1 1, 1. From here: duh.

And I chose to answer this because I do infact have a puzzle, which will be answered on here in thirty seconds or less, probably. Hooray for short puzzles!

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Drizzo
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dangit Koro, I was hoping you'd offer a nice tidy mathematical proof of that one. I knew how to play it for victory, having puzzled it out in the days when I styled myself as a mathematician, but I couldn't express my answer tidily, and didn't want to write out the numbers like you did. I was hoping you'd reeducate me on the abstract logic behind it.

*sigh* I knew I should have taken some math in college, from captain of the math team in high school to staring blank faced at simple logic problems... can you say "atrophy"?

And speaking of atrophy, I'm not going to bother to figure this out, instead I'll just ask. You said that with NIM a given player could force the win given any number of balls and rows. Ok.... never mind, I figured it out as I was asking... Since it's obviously impossible that both players can force a win, since if the 1st player can force a win, then the 2nd has no chance. I was going to ask if it was always the first, or if it was depended on the number of balls and rows. Until I realized that 3 rows of 1 and 4 rows of 1 would necessarily have different winners... logic like that still works in philosophy.

Anyway, it would be cool if you'd not force me to figure out how it works on the macro scale, because my brain is kinda curious now. What makes for the deciding factor on which player can force the win?


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TripleM
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Ah, I doubt anyone would *really* want to figure it out themselves. So I'll put it in secret tags

DiMono
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Here's my explanation of the solution:


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Koro
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To restate what others have said, and this works for more than three piles:



Now my puzzle:

Beethro and Dirkus are hacking through some long corridors of tar taking it in single file and in shifts to avoid needless fatigue. Beethro cut for 40 spaces and Dirkus did the rest. Then, they triggered a few orbs and began their tread back. In the meantime, the tar had filled in their path, so Beethro began carving back through and Dirkus finished the last 50 spaces. Who cut more tar, and by how much?

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RoboBob3000
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Is there an element to this puzzle that I don't understand? It seems terribly easy at a glance. I won't post my answer because I don't have a puzzle ready.

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Drizzo
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Koro wrote:

Beethro and Dirkus are hacking through some long corridors of tar taking it in single file and in shifts to avoid needless fatigue. Beethro cut for 40 spaces and Dirkus did the rest. Then, they triggered a few orbs and began their tread back. In the meantime, the tar had filled in their path, so Beethro began carving back through and Dirkus finished the last 50 spaces. Who cut more tar, and by how much?

I'm disappointed Koro. Anyone who could solve that card puzzle can challenge us more than this. I'm too tired to think of a decent puzzle myself, but I'll at least shift it.

OTTFFSSEN ... ?

Just about the oldest letter sequence puzzle in the book, but it's nearly 7am and I haven't slept yet.


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Watcher
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Drizzo wrote:


OTTFFSSEN ... ?

Just about the oldest letter sequence puzzle in the book, but it's nearly 7am and I haven't slept yet.

I'll put up a puzzle shortly.

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Watcher
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Okay, here it is. New card trick performed by Beethro and Bombus.

This trick uses a deck of 100 cards, numbered 1 to 100. The cards are mixed and placed in box, and a member of the audience is called up to pick one of the cards out. He may look in the box if he wishes, so the draw isn't necessarily random. He looks at the card and shows it to Beethro, and then places it face down so Bombus can't see it. Two other members of the audience are called up and in turn do the same thing.

Then Beethro picks a card from the box (not randomly) and places it next to the three others. A member of the audience then hands all four cards to Bombus, in whatever order he likes. Bombus then looks at all four cards and tells the audience in what order they were drawn from the box.

How do they do this?

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Skylancer64
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Does Bombus know which of the four cards is Beethro's, or does the audience member mix them up before handing them over?

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eytanz
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Oh yeah, I totally forgot about this - this was a cool puzzle, I hope someone solves it...

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Watcher
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Skylancer64 wrote:
Does Bombus know which of the four cards is Beethro's, or does the audience member mix them up before handing them over?

He doesn't know which card is Beethro's.

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DiMono
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*bump* Anyone got something resembling an answer? I'm totally stumped on this one

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