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DiMono
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I have so much more hair than that now, especially around the cheeks and chin... Anyway, you're cool with me putting that pic on my website, right?

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01-14-2004 at 03:21 AM
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Oneiromancer
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Yeah, go wild with that picture, it's yours.

Since Wesley is slacking off, I am going to add a new rule: if you don't have a new puzzle ready, or can't find/make one up soon, then please don't solve whatever puzzle is current. I'd rather be waiting because a puzzle is really hard than because there's no puzzle. And we just saw what happens when we get bored...innocent squirrels get hurt.

So, here's a puzzle to get us back on track.

Solve this cryptogram to get a modified version of a famous poem.

PY XZPXPYQYQK XZPXKPXZ PY XYPXKPQPQP QYKZYPKZXQ XYKZKZ KP KXQZKYKZ KPXY QPQZYPKZQPYZ KPXY KP XZXQKZKZ. KPQYKY YQPXYZ PYXY XZPXPYXY, PY PXKZKPXQ YZQZYK KPXYQK? 'KXKPYKXYKZ XYQZQPYPPYQYPQ XZXQKZKZXY PYXY QYQZXZ KP XZKPXYQK.


Game on,



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01-14-2004 at 07:51 AM
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bibelot
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Click here to view the secret text

01-14-2004 at 08:33 AM
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Oneiromancer
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Correctamundo! Each normal letter of the alphabet is represented by two letters in this cryptogram. It's actually a fairly easy code, once you see the pattern: take the letters K, P, Q, X, Y, and Z, and combine them in pairs alphabetically by digit without repeating a letter. So:

A - KP
B - KQ
C - KX
D - KY
E - KZ
F - PK
G - PQ
.
.
.
W - YQ
X - YX
Y - YZ
Z - ZK

You can of course figure out the letters that aren't in the poem this way, something that is usually impossible in a normal cryptogram. Anyway, bibelot's up!

Game on,


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01-14-2004 at 03:45 PM
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DiMono
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bibelot's really good at these. That one only took about 40 minutes. I think he's peeking at the answer sheets.

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01-14-2004 at 04:02 PM
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Schik
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DiMono wrote:
bibelot's really good at these. That one only took about 40 minutes. I think he's peeking at the answer sheets.
:thumbsdown
I'm not even that good at cryptograms, and I could easily do that one in 40 minutes. Unfortunately, I couldn't do it while asleep, which is where I was when it was posted. People who *are* good at them could probably do a dozen in 40 minutes. Or more.


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01-14-2004 at 04:09 PM
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DiMono
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Schik wrote:
DiMono wrote:
bibelot's really good at these. That one only took about 40 minutes. I think he's peeking at the answer sheets.
:thumbsdown
I'm not even that good at cryptograms, and I could easily do that one in 40 minutes. Unfortunately, I couldn't do it while asleep, which is where I was when it was posted. People who *are* good at them could probably do a dozen in 40 minutes. Or more.
Yeah, I was asleep when it was posted too. I'm really good at cryptograms though, so I wouldn't have answered it anyway. Just one of the benefits of being a Scrabble player :thumbsup

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01-14-2004 at 04:15 PM
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Schik
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DiMono wrote:
I'm really good at cryptograms though, so I wouldn't have answered it anyway.
There's no rule about not answering something if you're good at it. Come on - show off your stuff! Since you're good at logic problems too, maybe next time I'm up I'll post a real doozy for you.

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01-14-2004 at 04:22 PM
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bibelot
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Yeah, I happened to be awake when it was posted; that's what late night studying will do to you.

Anyways...


A quart of unhomogenized milk sits in one of those old fashioned glass milk bottles. After a while, the cream separates, floating up into the narrow neck of the bottle. Does this cause the pressure at the bottom of the bottle to increase, decrease, or stay the same?

01-14-2004 at 07:54 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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It will stay the same.

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01-14-2004 at 08:00 PM
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Oneiromancer
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For a multiple choice question like this, you can't just state an answer...you have to justify it. Otherwise 3 of us could just all guess different answers and one of us would get it. Please logically support your answer, because even if it is correct if your reasoning is faulty it won't count.

Game on,

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01-14-2004 at 08:08 PM
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The_Red_Hawk
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The pressure will be the same because there is still exactly the same amount of matter inside.

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Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

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01-14-2004 at 08:13 PM
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krammer
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I'm going to say that it increases. Liquid pressure depends only on depth and density (P = 10hd). As the cream floats to the top, it's less dense, so milk alone must be denser than milk and cream combined, and so the pressure at the bottom of the bottle is greater.

Now someone is going to prove me horribly wrong, I can just tell...

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01-14-2004 at 08:43 PM
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agaricus5
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The pressure of what on what?

Is it the pressure of the milk on the bottle, or the pressure of the bottom of the bottle on the surface it sits on?

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01-14-2004 at 08:44 PM
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bibelot
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agaricus5 wrote:
The pressure of what on what?

The milk's pressure on the bottom of the bottle.

No one's got it yet...
01-14-2004 at 09:09 PM
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zex20913
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The pressure is less after a time.

I know that there is a way to justify it with calculus, but it's been a couple of years since I looked at that page that one time.

So, I'll justify it by gravity, which is probably taken in some way from the calculus.

Because the cream floats to the top, it is less dense than the substance it is in. Density is mass over volume, so there is either less mass at the top, or more volume. Either way, it is lighter on the top.

Weight is a function of mass and distance. The farther away from the core of the earth, the smaller effect gravity will have. While slight for our milk bottle problem, it is justifiable as well.

But gravity will not have as great an effect when most of the mass is lower. (I could also say that the potential energy is greater before time passes) Gravity pulls more on the top, but when it is comparatively lighter, it can not put as much pressure on the bottom.

So, the answer is "less".

[Edited by zex20913 on 01-15-2004 at 05:28 AM GMT]

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01-15-2004 at 05:23 AM
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bibelot
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zex20913 wrote:
Weight is a function of mass and distance. The farther away from the core of the earth, the smaller effect gravity will have. While slight for our milk bottle problem, it is justifiable as well.

But gravity will not have as great an effect when most of the mass is lower. (I could also say that the potential energy is greater before time passes) Gravity pulls more on the top, but when it is comparatively lighter, it can not put as much pressure on the bottom.

Actually, I think this would make the pressure greater since the force of gravity is greater where the heavier particles are. But regardless, this effect is negligible compared to the main effect, which no one has mentioned yet. Since our bottle is a normal size, you can assume that the gravitational field is uniform.


[Edited by bibelot on 01-15-2004 at 05:47 AM GMT: physics]
01-15-2004 at 05:42 AM
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Scott
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Isn't it more using that theory?

The lighter particles have all moved to the top and the heavier ones to the bottom. Therefore the heavier particles now have more gravity effect on them then when some were at the top meaning more pressure.
01-15-2004 at 05:43 AM
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levelthirteen
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File: milk.txt (622 bytes)
Downloaded 128 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified
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Attached is an argument.
01-15-2004 at 01:23 PM
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bibelot
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Well, that's certainly the right idea (the answer is "less," and it does rely on the shape of the bottle.) Can you come up with an explanation that doesn't rely so much on all those numbers?
01-15-2004 at 09:06 PM
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leroy00
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The following would apply in the case that the milk and cream are separated by a layer of gas (air). In this case, the weight of the cream would be distributed to the walls of the bottle without contributing to the hydrostatic pressure on the bottom of the bottle, in much the same way that the blocks in an arch or dome only exert pressure on the stones which carry them and not on the ground underneath. The bottle would seemingly become heavier, while the pressure on its bottom would decrease, which would balance out from the point of view of the surface underneath the bottle. This is the only conclusive answer I could think of. If this isn't the case, my instinct would be to say that the difference depends on the size of factors involved, i.e. density(milk) - density(cream) (which isn't zero) as well as height of the bottle, etc., and you would have to do simulations for various magnitudes thereof or look up the real values somewhere to convince me. Unless of course I have overlooked something.
leroy

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01-16-2004 at 11:52 AM
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levelthirteen
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bibelot wrote:
Well, that's certainly the right idea (the answer is "less," and it does rely on the shape of the bottle.) Can you come up with an explanation that doesn't rely so much on all those numbers?
The pressure at the bottom of the bottle is dependent on the ratio of milk to cream in the tallest column. With a straight bottle, when the cream separates, Red_Hawk is correct: the pressure stays the same. With a bottle that narrows at the top, when the cream separates, milk flows out of the tallest column and is replaced by cream from the sides, lowering the pressure.
01-16-2004 at 07:03 PM
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bibelot
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All right, you can take it.

My explanation went as follows: since the weight doesn't change, the only difference in pressure can come from a change in downward force exerted by the sloping sides of the neck of the bottle, which is proportional to the pressure of the liquid at that height. Since the stuff above that height gets lighter, the pressure here is less, so the pressure at the bottom is less.
01-16-2004 at 09:57 PM
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levelthirteen
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What number can't be seen?
92, 15, 61, 21, 19
01-17-2004 at 03:16 AM
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The_Red_Hawk
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What do you mean?

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....
01-17-2004 at 03:50 AM
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zex20913
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I would have to say 92, because no one is there to see it. :P

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01-17-2004 at 06:16 AM
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Mattcrampy
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92, because not only is it the only even number, if you flip the other numbers over they resemble other numbers in the group. 92 does not.

Matt

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01-17-2004 at 06:25 AM
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zex20913
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*If this is right, Mattcrampy gets it due to inspiration*

56? Flipping all the other numbers gets another number, and if you flip 92 you get 56.

Note: Flip means rotate 180 degrees (or 2 pi) clockwise (or counter-clockwise.)

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01-17-2004 at 02:44 PM
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Schik
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zex20913 wrote:
Note: Flip means rotate 180 degrees (or 2 pi) clockwise (or counter-clockwise.)
I flipped them all by 2 PI, but they all look the exact same! Hellllp!!?!?
;)

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01-17-2004 at 09:14 PM
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levelthirteen
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Clarification: What number can't be seen on an upside-down clock?
92, 15, 61, 21, 19
:fun
01-17-2004 at 10:02 PM
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