Oneiromancer
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I think for a small number of squares, the strategy is different, and you have to account for those separately. But for a higher number of squares, Hawk's solution might work.

Except that there aren't always an even number of squares...for example, 5^2 = 25 is not an even number. Also, imagine that this Neil person places a quarter so it is centered at the meeting point of 4 squares, covering a bit of each of them. It would certainly be possible on a large enough board for Eytan to place a quarter diagonal to that one so that only 3 more squares are covered up. Actually, this might help your strategy. In any case, since part of your solution is invalid, you need to modify it accordingly and account for more possibilities.

Game on,

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The_Red_Hawk
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Except that there aren't always an even number of squares...for example, 5^2 = 25 is not an even number.

He said it was a *square* table. But oh yeah...5x5=25. I guess that's what you meant. But..... Eytan could simply switch this around by having one time where he adds one less square than Neil.

Also, imagine that this Neil person places a quarter so it is centered at the meeting point of 4 squares, covering a bit of each of them. It would certainly be possible on a large enough board for Eytan to place a quarter diagonal to that one so that only 3 more squares are covered up. Actually, this might help your strategy.

But his strategy is not to do that, unless it is a balancing act to counter something else by Neil, which Neil might do. He simply copies the amount of new squares of Neil each time, and adds/subtracts one if the number of squares is odd.

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The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Schik
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The strategy I'm looking for would also work perfectly on a rectangular table, a circular table, or an oval-shaped table.


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Schik
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
But his strategy is not to do that, unless it is a balancing act to counter something else by Neil, which Neil might do. He simply copies the amount of new squares of Neil each time, and adds/subtracts one if the number of squares is odd.

I think one problem with the method you're trying to use is that just because a square is partially covered by a quarter doesn't mean it's "used up" - for instance, what if it came to be Neil's turn, and there was one and only one location where he could place a quarter without ANY new squares being used - i.e. in the middle of a 2x2 area, with 4 quarters already touching each of the outside corners? Then Eytanz can't play his "cover the same # of squares that Neil did" strategy.

If the rules were constrained such that you could only place coins in the middles of the squares or right on their edges and corners, then it might be more feasible to come up with a strategy like this.

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zex20913
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16 hours and counting.

I've seen this in a different form.

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The_Red_Hawk
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Hey, I see.....

Eytan has the winning strategy?

Assume that the table is a square grid again, for simplicity. It is also divided in four symmetrical parts. When Neil places a quarter, all Eytan has to do is place a quarter on the opposite side that is symmetrically equal to Neil's.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Watcher
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I got it, based on The_Red_Hawk's post above. Neil has a winning strategy. He starts out by placing a quarter in the exact middle, then he places quarters opposite Eytan's. That will make the table symmetric under 180 degrees rotation. Regardless of where Eytan places his quarter, there will be space for another one on the opposite side. Therefore, Neil can always place a quarter. Since the area that isn't covered decreases, Eytan must lose at some point.

(If this is correct, I'll let Hawk post the next one, since I'm just copying his strategy.)

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The_Red_Hawk
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No, that wouldn't work, because there could be an even or odd number of squares left. My solution works if there's an even number, yours if there's an odd number. Hmmm.....

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

zex20913
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You're thinking along the wrong lines, Hawk. Watcher is right. And, he explained it correctly. There is not any need to think about squares at all.

If there is one quarter placed in the exact middle, then no matter where Eytan places a quarter, Neil can put one exactly opposite it. As long as Eytan can play one, Neil can play one.

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Schik
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No, Watcher's works all the time. It's the correct answer. Forget about squares. Watcher's description is dead on right.

Edit: zex snuck one in on me - I was referring to Red_Hawks' post.

[Edited by Schik on 01-10-2004 at 06:19 PM GMT]

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Watcher
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All right, then. But like I said, I was just copying Hawk's strategy. (It went something like this: I read his post, thought "But what about the middle?", and then it hit me that if Neil blocked the middle, he could follow the strategy.)

Anyway, I'll pass it on to Hawk. His turn now.

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The_Red_Hawk
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OK.....

This is perhaps more of a math puzzle than a logic puzzle, but it's still something that you can have fun with. My math teacher says it's possible, but he also says that none of his students have ever solved it. If it's too hard, I'll post something else.

Assign every letter (A-Z) a value. A is 1, B is 2, C is 3, etc. Find *one* word where when the letters are multiplied with each other, has a value of exactly 1 000 000 (one million). For example: the word DROD has a value of 4x18x15x4, which is 4320.

Actually, one kid in my class got a word with 1 000 001, but I don't know what it was. (He probably wouldn't remember anyways. It was a big word and it was a couple of years ago).

HINT:



[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 01-10-2004 at 09:59 PM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Watcher
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Well, the word "tetty", apparently an obsolete word meaning "testy" or "irritable" satisfies the condition. I don't know if there's a more modern word that does.

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Schik
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Another pretty obscure one is "typey" - "characterized by strict conformance to type; also : exhibiting superior bodily conformation <a sound typey heifer>"

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levelthirteen
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In a 117972 word dictionary, the only valid word found was "typey". "heyday" "teepee" "tatty" "typy" "jetted" "teethe" "tythe" "heydey" "jetty" "hebetate" and "petty" are similar.

Oneiromancer
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TABBY DYE works, and it is sort of real, at least there are a bunch of mean kids out there who would use something like this. Of course, it is two words, which isn't allowed, but it is the most reasonable example I could find.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

The_Red_Hawk
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Sorry. In the dictionary I'm using (which is a computer, and presumably a lot better)...

neither "typey" nor "tetty" are legal words.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
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Oh - I just saw Oneiro's post, which I didn't see when I wrote my last one. I also got two things like that, YET EBBED and EAT-EAT-EAT (or ATE-ATE-ATE, whichever.)

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Schik
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Sorry. In the dictionary I'm using (which is a computer, and presumably a lot better)...

neither "typey" nor "tetty" are legal words.

"A computer" is a lot better than Merriam-Webster dictionary?

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

The_Red_Hawk
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Schik wrote: "A computer" is a lot better than Merriam-Webster dictionary?

Apparently. I can regularly update my program from the Internet, which should have all the latest stuff (after all, it's a pretty respectable site). What year's version do you have?

Probably, if it's one of those really obscure words like those mentioned above, you'll only get it in a *really* recent dictionary.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Oneiromancer
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http://www.onelook.com/?w=typey&ls=b

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Schik
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:

Schik wrote: "A computer" is a lot better than Merriam-Webster dictionary?

Apparently. I can regularly update my program from the Internet, which should have all the latest stuff (after all, it's a pretty respectable site). What year's version do you have?

The version that's current as of... today - www.webster.com . It sounds like you're saying since my dictionary is old (it isn't) and has the word, and yours is so new and doesn't have the word, that the words were thrown out of the English language? Not sure I get your logic.

Just for kicks, and because it's *really* easy, I went ahead and did the same as levelthirteen - made a program to look at a word list and find matches. I downloaded several word lists, and the only words found in any of them that match are tetty and typey. One of the lists had some weird non-words in them such as ytett, bettyj, jjjjjj, y-type, and deeeeeep which also matched. This was searching over 800,000 words.

Seeing as you don't even have a solution (Onei - how about a new rule, you have to have a solution for the puzzle you post???) I think you need to either come up with a better solution or accept the first answer that a common dictionary contains.

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

The_Red_Hawk
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All right then, I guess Watcher gets it.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Watcher
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Okay, here's a quickie:

One day, Michael states "Two days ago, I was 21 years old, and next year, I'll turn 24." What is Michael's birthday, and on what date does he make this statement?

Saying that Michael is lying doesn't count as a solution.

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agaricus5
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Yay! At last something I can answer correctly!

He speaks on the 1st of January, and his birthday is the 31st of December.



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Mattcrampy
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Dang, just too slow.

Matt

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Watcher
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agaricus5 wrote:
Yay! At last something I can answer correctly!

He speaks on the 1st of January, and his birthday is the 31st of December.

No, he speaks on the 1st of Onsuary, and his birthday is the 37th of Novender.

Just kidding. Your turn.

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agaricus5
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Watcher wrote:
No, he speaks on the 1st of Onsuary, and his birthday is the 37th of Novender.

Just kidding. Your turn.

You're cruel...

I can't think of anything at the moment, so I'll let someone post a puzzle first, and I'll return later when I have one.

Speaking of puzzles, if anyone wants to have a go at it, there is a very old but as yet unsolved DROD puzzle still lurking around on the forum. I'm going to re-do the solution (It's been at least four months since I last had a go, but anyone else interested can have a go at it if they want.

Go see this thread if you're interested:

A Very Complex DROD Puzzle

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Mattcrampy
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Do wraithwings on top of tar count? How about tar babies on top of walls?

Matt

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Oneiromancer
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Schik wrote:
Seeing as you don't even have a solution (Onei - how about a new rule, you have to have a solution for the puzzle you post???) I think you need to either come up with a better solution or accept the first answer that a common dictionary contains.

Yes, this should go without saying, but I'll add the rule anyway. You shouldn't post a puzzle if you don't know the answer, just like you shouldn't post a challenge that you haven't yet done yourself.

agaricus5 wrote:
I can't think of anything at the moment, so I'll let someone post a puzzle first, and I'll return later when I have one.

That's going to be tough to manage, but I suppose at some point someone will also beg off of posting a puzzle and then you can step in if you're ready.

Mattcrampy can go since he was just too slow.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams