Watcher
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bibelot wrote:
Any move from a bad position leads to a good position; you always have to take from one of the three small piles and only one other, so there will always be two piles larger than the smallest after you are done. Since you can always make a move in a good position and you can only get a good position back if you move to a bad position, you will never reach a point where you can't move, so you can't lose. Obviously someone has to lose because the total number of matches strictly decreases, so it has to be the other person.

[Edited by bibelot on 01-07-2004 at 06:03 PM GMT]

That's correct. Your turn.

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bibelot
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This one shouldn't be too hard:


Using only the operations addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, possibly with parentheses, use each of the following groups of four numbers to create an expression that equals 24. (There is no "trick"; you cannot use decimal points, square roots, exponentiation, or other such things, and you must use each number exactly once). For example, if the group was {6,7,8,9}, a correct answer would be 6*8/(9-7). The two groups are:

{3,3,7,7} and {3,3,8,8}

DiMono
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This is like a game I play with a deck of cards. Take the cards numbered 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 and 9, deal them face up 4 at a time, and use whatever shows to make 24. It's fun. As such, I won't answer.

Oh, and for the record, if Watcher had liked my answer better I'd have thrown it back to bibelot, since I really just followed up on his.

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zex20913
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I got the first one, but I'm striking out on the 3388 one.

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levelthirteen
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(3/7 + 3) * 7
8 / (3 - (8 / 3) )
Do results that round to 24 count as solutions? (8 * 3) + (3 / , for instance.

bibelot
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levelthirteen wrote:
(3/7 + 3) * 7
8 / (3 - (8 / 3) )

Looks good.

levelthirteen
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What is the sum of the infinite series 1/1 + 1/1 + 1/2 + 1/3 + 1/5 + 1/8 etc. ? (1 / fibonacci )

Oneiromancer
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I'm sorry, levelthirteen, I'm going to have to draw the line at this "puzzle". This is just a math problem, as far as I can tell, and I don't see how someone not trained in mathematics should be expected to come up with a proveable answer. (Perhaps they could guess, but that's not really a solution.) A few days ago I added a rule #4 to the original post. I didn't publicize it then, but I am publicizing it now. Please come up with a new puzzle that is more logical and less requiring of taught knowledge. The previous puzzle to this was okay because it was only basic mathematical operations that everyone would be expected to know.

Game on,

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DiMono
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No worries, oneiromancer, it's 2 x the golden ratio, which is roughly 2 x 1.6180339, which is roughly 3.2360678. I don't remember what the proof is, though

Edit: I don't remember the proof because it's the wrong answer. the golden ratio is roughly fibonacci n / fibonacci n-1 for large values of n. The sum of the reciprocals is about 3.3598856662, also known as the Prevost Constant

[Edited by DiMono on 01-09-2004 at 03:54 AM GMT]

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Oneiromancer
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DiMono wrote:
No worries, oneiromancer, it's 2 x the golden ratio, which is roughly 2 x 1.6180339, which is roughly 3.2360678. I don't remember what the proof is, though

Thanks anyway, but I wasn't worried. I just want levelthirteen to come up with a different puzzle. If your answer counts then there's no point even having the rules.

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

DiMono
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Thanks anyway, but I wasn't worried. I just want levelthirteen to come up with a different puzzle. If your answer counts then there's no point even having the rules.

But I have such a good one lined up... :pout

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levelthirteen
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File: converge.txt (7.7 KB)
Downloaded 93 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

DiMono is accurate. It converges very quickly, so knowing obscure trivia is not essential.
Here's another puzzle:
A man flys to Paris, and finds that touch typing results in frequent typos. Why?

Oneiromancer
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levelthirteen wrote:
DiMono is accurate. It converges very quickly, so knowing obscure trivia is not essential.

Yet you still wrote a program to solve it, you didn't define what "fibonacci" is for the average person to do it without prior knowledge, and by your admission it is nothing more than a math problem, just a simple plug 'n' chug into the calculator without any logical thinking necessary. That is not a puzzle in the spirit of this game.

Now, if you had said, "give the next three numbers in the series 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13..." that is more of a logic puzzle than a math problem. I hope the difference is apparent. Even though the Fibonacci series is present, as it was in your problem, it needs to be deduced by the puzzle solver. And by the rules of the game, someone who already knows the answer has to wait for at least a day before posting an answer, thereby almost guaranteeing that the puzzle will be solved by someone applying logic rather than memory.

Your current puzzle seems to be much more in the spirit of the game, so let's see who can solve it first!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

bibelot
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French keyboards differ from the standard Qwerty keyboards in a few keys. For example, the a and q are switched, as are the w and z, the m is to the right of the l, and most of the punctuation is moved around.

levelthirteen
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bibelot, you've won. French keyboard signature.
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² & é " ' ( - è _ ç à ) =
a z e r t y u i o p ^ $ *
q s d f g h j k l m ù
w x c v b n , ; : !

bibelot
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Fine Italian skillets were once made of tin-lined copper (they may still be.) As it turns out, the boiling point of olive oil is actually higher than the melting point of tin. Of course, you can still fry food in olive oil in these skillets. Why?

Oneiromancer
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Presumably because when you are cooking in oil it is the water in your food that is boiling and not the oil itself? (Similar to the way that a microwave oven mostly heats up the water in your food.)

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

bibelot
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That's right; the boiling water also absorbs the heat, preventing the skillet and oil from getting too hot.

ErikH2000
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I was going to climb up into the Italian Mountains and fry my food up there. But I guess it wasn't necessary.

-Erik

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Oneiromancer
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Well, I would like to go home and find a good puzzle for you guys, but since I am at work I will just have to settle for this one:

What are the next three letters in this series?

A
E
F
H
I
K
L
M
N

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Schik
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They seem to be (uppercase) letters in alphabetical order that are drawn using only straight lines - no curves.

So the next 3 would be
TVW


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Oneiromancer
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Well, look at the big brain on Schik! I bet Calvin wouldn't have figured that out though.

Yeah, go ahead and give us your next really evil one.

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Schik
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Neil and Eytan are playing a game:
- The two players take turns placing quarters on a square table. You can assume that the table is larger than one quarter.
- Neil goes first, Eytan second.
- The quarters can touch each other on the edge, but may not overlap - one entire side of each quarter must be touching the table's surface.
- Once a quarter has been laid down, it cannot be moved.
- If a player cannot place a quarter in a valid location, they lose.

Who can make a winning strategy, Neil or Eytan? And how?



[Edited by Schik on 01-09-2004 at 09:57 PM GMT]

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The_Red_Hawk
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Neil can. They can each place quarters within neat, tightly defined squares, but they probably won't. So when they are playing, at the end, if he plays right, Neil will be able to decide whether he will put down a quarter in a defined square or put it in the middle, using up two squares.

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The red hawk's dance of death.

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Schik
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Neil can. They can each place quarters within neat, tightly defined squares, but they probably won't. So when they are playing, at the end, if he plays right, Neil will be able to decide whether he will put down a quarter in a defined square or put it in the middle, using up two squares.

No. You really haven't shown how it is that Neil can guarantee a win.


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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
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The_Red_Hawk
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So the answer is "Neil", though?

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
So the answer is "Neil", though?

It's not just the person that counts, it's the strategy to go with him that's also important. You may be wrong (I haven't considered it yet) and Eytan may have the winning strategy. As in many other puzzles, you need to justify why you have answered the way you have, and explain fully why you are correct.

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Schik
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
So the answer is "Neil", though?

Ditto what agaricus said. And I don't think my response implied that Neil can win - I just said you haven't proven to me how he can win.

[Edited by Schik on 01-10-2004 at 01:43 AM GMT: typo]

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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
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The_Red_Hawk
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All right, I think I got it. Eytan has the winning strategy.

Assume that the board is divided up into squares the same size as a quarter's diameter. If there is leftover, that doesn't matter. If Neil places a quarter directly in one of these squares, Eytan does too, right beside him. If Neil places a quarter to cover two squares, Eytan does too, right beside him. Same if the quarter covers four.

In this way, since Eytan played second and there will always be an even number of squares, he will win.

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 01-10-2004 at 03:03 AM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Scott
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What if the table has only 4 squares?