bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
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eytanz wrote:
I'm pretty sure that you meant that if you don't collapse the trapdoor, you can't get back.

You're right - but there's a trick:

Click here to view the secret text

×wait until the largest snake's head is near the roach before releasing the trapdoor. The roach will move towards you, i.e. into the snake's path - both steering it away from the dead-end, and helping you kill the big snake.

Aarrgh! I knew it had something to do with that area but I was looking too far south. Thanks. Back to Bavato's Dungeon and Deep Hold. Onwards and upwards - or is it downwards? You never can tell these days.

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

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We must go forward, not backward! Upward, not forward! And always twirling, twirling, into the future!



And I have a way to avoid changing the order of my levels, while making it not weird to go from Dungeon 2 to Dungeon 3. Stay tuned for the final version! (I would make it part of the next testing release, but where's the fun in that?)

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bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
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DiMono wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×For bonus marks, there's a way to kill the longest snake without using the roach. Can you find it?

DiMono
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bandit1200 wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×Kill the roach and leave the queen alive until only the long snake is left. Which leads me to ask, why is its behaviour different to the others while the queen is still alive?

I could tell you, but then you'd know.

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DiMono
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All right, ladies and gentlemen, here is the final testing version (I hope) of King Reubus' Palace. I realized that I really was out of things to say with this hold, so the two new levels are small, and there are a few bug fixes, and that's about it. I forgot to change the destination of the stairs in the the hold enterance, but it's anyone edit so that shouldn't really matter.

Of course, this isn't quite all I have to say with this hold: the final release version will have all sorts of secrets and such, like the secret level the ending text promises, and in some cases the levels are just plain different than in the testing version. For now, though, I present you with King Reubus' Palace for your consideration. Any and all feedback is both encouraged and welcome, as I still have quite a ways to go before being able to release this to the Holds section.

Oh, and I haven't changed Dungeon 2 or 3 except to fix the goblin room in 3 and play with scrolls and checkpoints in 2, so your time is better spent in the new levels, all two of them. Oh, and Garden 1E has no bugs, only quirks.

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DiMono
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Man, turns out releasing this version of the hold at the same time as Fool's Errand was an unfortunate piece of timing... I have a couple people I'd like to run the full hold past before I publish it to the Holds forum, but I'll wait until I've gotten some feedback on this most recent test version before doing anything about that. I eagerly await what you all have to say.

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DiMono
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Just to head something off at the pass, I really wasn't satisfied with Palace Entrance 2 North (the eyeball room) and have replaced it with something else. I won't upload a new version of the hold just for this one room change, but for anyone who found it very tedious, so did I, and it's gone now.

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DiMono
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Well, either people are too busy with other holds to get to mine yet, or there's something about the two new levels that's throwing people away. Should I just get to the private testing and promote it to Holds already? Is there in fact something wrong with the two new levels?

Is there anyone who is willing to give the full and complete version of this hold immediate attention for me, so I can finish with it and move on to other things?

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 09-02-2003
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I might be able to get you some comments, but don't expect anything really soon.

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DiMono
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Why do I have in my head an image of you standing over people playing DROD with a whip, yelling "GET AN OPINION!" ?

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swann_88
Level: Delver

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this makes 2 people

you guys do realize that people will test at their convenience not yours right?

anyways why test this hold if the final version is not going to be the same?
seems like it would be a waste of time

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
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DiMono wrote:
Well, either people are too busy with other holds to get to mine yet, or there's something about the two new levels that's throwing people away. Should I just get to the private testing and promote it to Holds already? Is there in fact something wrong with the two new levels?

It's probably the same thing that I'm getting - go and see the Bavato's Dungeon threads to see what I mean. If you want my advice, I'd just be a little more patient as the DROD community does not always have enough time to spend on DROD as it would like. Try waiting for one or two more weeks for people to catch up or discover the hold. After that, if you get no replies, then the reason is probably that it is difficult and no trivial solutions have been found.

Again, I think the basic thing is patience. Give the testers more of a chance to find enough time.

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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DiMono wrote:
Why do I have in my head an image of you standing over people playing DROD with a whip, yelling "GET AN OPINION!" ?

Whhaaaaaaaat?????

I don't know what you mean, but somehow it still made me laugh.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 10-23-2003
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I think you might want a blue door instead of a green one at the exit to The Cellar Level 2.

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RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 10-23-2003
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In the Dungeon Level 1 Once West, you might want to move your force arrows over once to the right.

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DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

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RoboBob3000 wrote:
In the Dungeon Level 1 Once West, you might want to move your force arrows over once to the right.

Wow, you're totally right about that. Good catch.

There's a reason it's a green door instead of a blue door. I don't mind if people only solve two rooms on the level, they'll just be missing out on all the fun.

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DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

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swann_88 wrote:
why test this hold if the final version is not going to be the same?
seems like it would be a waste of time

The changes are additions of secret rooms and tricks and such, so the testers have incentive to still download the finished hold from the Holds forum. What's there now is staying there (with the exception of that eyeball room on the last level), and I'm going to ask a few specific people for help playtesting the final full and complete version in private.

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

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I actually agree with Swann - by removing the secret rooms, you are providing a strong disincentive to playtest the hold; basically, you are penalizing your playtesters since they'll either have to miss the secret rooms or play through the hold twice. Had I known that you will be adding secret rooms when I first saw this hold, I'm not sure I would have played through it.

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DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

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eytanz wrote:
I actually agree with Swann - by removing the secret rooms, you are providing a strong disincentive to playtest the hold; basically, you are penalizing your playtesters since they'll either have to miss the secret rooms or play through the hold twice. Had I known that you will be adding secret rooms when I first saw this hold, I'm not sure I would have played through it.

Hmm... judgment call gone wrong. I think this comes back to the "secrets should remain secret" argument against anyone-edit permissions. Well, for future holds I'll avoid secret rooms, etc., but I'm going to stick to my plan for this hold.

If it makes you feel any better, I've counted them up, there are almost fifty new rooms in the (final) release version, so it's not like anyone who tested the hold needs to play the entire thing over again for one hidden room, or something silly like that.

[Edited by DiMono on 02-16-2004 at 05:19 PM GMT]

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jdyer
Level: Smiter
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Registered: 03-19-2003
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DiMono wrote:
Hmm... judgment call gone wrong. I think this comes back to the "secrets should remain secret" argument against anyone-edit permissions. Well, for future holds I'll avoid secret rooms, etc., but I'm going to stick to my plan for this hold.

If you have secrets that absolutely must remain secret, you can always do a private test. The comments you get seem to be deeper anyway (I am quite pleased with how my current hold is turning out).

[Edited by jdyer on 02-16-2004 at 07:37 PM GMT]

DiMono
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jdyer wrote:
If you have secrets that absolutely must remain secret, you can always do a private test. The comments you get seem to be deeper anyway (I am quite pleased with how my current hold is turning out).

Yes, I've approached a few forum members asking if they want to do that, with varying answers. I sort of want to wait until I get feedback from the general forum though, before passing that on.

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Watcher
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Bit of feedback:

Dungeon level 2, 1S: It took me a bit of time to work out what to do, but once I found the pattern, it wasn't too hard. Except for one thing: when I finally got to the end of the tar, the remaining trapdoor was too far away from the red door, making it impossible to reach the corridor in time. That was rather annoying. I eventually solved the problem by restoring to the first checkpoint and leaving one trapdoor untouched closer to the mother, but I'd recommend removing the last two columns of trapdoors, or at least move them to the other end of the room.

Dungeon level 3, 2E: I can't solve this. No matter what I do, the snake refuses to go into the dead end, even after killing the brains. I suspect the moving the broken wall to above the corridor, instead of below, will solve the problem.

Dungeon level 3, 2S2E: If you leave by the southernmost corridor (after removing all the trapdoors), it is impossible to get back. This makes 1S3E unsolvable.

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DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

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Watcher wrote:
Bit of feedback:

Dungeon level 2, 1S: It took me a bit of time to work out what to do, but once I found the pattern, it wasn't too hard. Except for one thing: when I finally got to the end of the tar, the remaining trapdoor was too far away from the red door, making it impossible to reach the corridor in time. That was rather annoying. I eventually solved the problem by restoring to the first checkpoint and leaving one trapdoor untouched closer to the mother, but I'd recommend removing the last two columns of trapdoors, or at least move them to the other end of the room.

Dungeon level 3, 2E: I can't solve this. No matter what I do, the snake refuses to go into the dead end, even after killing the brains. I suspect the moving the broken wall to above the corridor, instead of below, will solve the problem.

Dungeon level 3, 2S2E: If you leave by the southernmost corridor (after removing all the trapdoors), it is impossible to get back. This makes 1S3E unsolvable.

Thanks for the feedback. The first room you mention was designed so you'd be forced to leave an unused trap door near the left, and a green door's been added to Dungeon 3 1S3E that I thought made it in to the current version of the hold. Rest assured, a green door is there, and it's possible to exit 1S3E after killing the goblins

The second room, it's tricky to get the snake to do what you want, and I'm going to include a front-screen demo of it. I just replayed the room, and killed the snake, so it's definitely possible, if a little difficult.

Thank you again for the comments, I really do appreciate them.

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swann_88
Level: Delver

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Eytanz wrote:
I actually agree with Swann

you make it sound like no one would ever agree with me

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

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Heh. No, what was surprising about my post wasn't that someone was agreeing with you - it was that I actually wrote a post to agree with someone.



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swann_88
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ok I started the feb 17 version at the beginning

just finished the pit

in general the first 4 levels are pretty good
not too hard just make you think a bit sometimes

lobby 3n 1e could use a checkpoint only room on that level I died in

cellar lvl 1 I was early lol

cellar lvl 2 why is the exit a green door?
2e, 2n, 1n2e, 2n2e all are pretty much the same puzzle repeated
with 1s2e being a much more difficult version of it
the way wasn't as long as the scroll in the entrance made me think it would be

the pit
good placement for the cracked wall
fun with wraithwings

off to try the rest

DiMono
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I played the full hold through over the past couple days. I won't say what I thought about it, since my opinion is by definition a little biased, but I found a trivial solution for Pit 2N1E and removed it, and fixed some stairs' destinations. I think it's just about ready for the final run-thru, I'm just waiting for some feedback on the last two levels.

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DiMono
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Alright, the hold is now in the Holds section, in all its glory. Many thank yous to everyone who tested and gave feedback, I couldn't have finished it without you.

And Schik, I've pulled it out of this thread to save you some space in your attachment table

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swann_88
Level: Delver

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well I'm off to try the final version and see if I was giving you too much of a hard time about the secrets