bandit1200
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DiMono wrote:
Oh, and Bandit, you might want to make sure you have the same number of [quote] and [/quote], as your message looks a little awkward.

Yeah, I missed a backslash. Sorted now.

DiMono
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Right now there are 45 people with copies of my hold. I just want to say it feels really good to have so many people interested in what I'm doing. I think this is a hidden benefit of letting people test holds in progress. Knowing there are people looking forward to the next part gives me more incentive to continue. Thanks everyone!

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DiMono
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Alright, attached here and at the top of the thread is (are?) the new version of King Reubus' Palace.

I've added 3 Dungeon levels, and a Spiral Staircase that some of you might find eerily familiar. In total, I'm up to 7 levels plus the staircase, and this is the entirety of the underground portion of the hold.

The difficulty levels spike a little for the first two levels of the Dungeon portion of the hold, and then the main puzzle in Dungeon 3 is in finding your way to the puzzle portions of the rooms... you'll see what I mean

Now, there are a couple things I would like to get feedback on with this release of the hold:

First of all, is it fun

Any comments regarding levels or rooms is always appreciated.

Is there enough variety in the spiral staircase?

Is this half of the hold strong enough for me to release it as finished (with a few secret modifications to make it worth your time to play, of course), and then put the above-ground portion as a sequel?

I've kept the anyone-edit feature, though I'd prefer if you played it through so you can get the feel for it. I've made a few inspired changes to the previously existing levels, and the stairs in the first level entrance go to the beginning of the Dungeon portion of the hold.

That's all I have to say for now, enjoy!


Edit: For those who are interested, here's a list of the changes I made to the first 4 levels in this release:

Cellar 2 (level 3): 2N1E is an entirely new room
Cellar 2: There are now ways to return to the exit room if you leave to the North or South before finishing the room
Pit (level 4): 1N now has substantially fewer trapdoors, and much more pit
Pit: There are now checkpoints on this level

[Edited by DiMono on 01-19-2004 at 04:49 AM GMT]

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Scott
Level: Smitemaster
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I have done dungeon level 1. Is fine mostly expect for 2 things.

1N is terribly monotonous. Its just the same thing over and over and over 4 times.

The stairs at the end lead back to the start of this level.

DiMono
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Scott wrote:
The stairs at the end lead back to the start of this level.

That's really strange. I just checked, and the stairs at the end of Dungeon 2 do the same thing. I've fixed both of these, and replaced the hold in the two places it's up for download. Thank you very much for finding and pointing this out so quickly.

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joker5
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Trivial Solution: Staircase 4-3.



See? No need for roaches.

Great hold, though.

~joker5

[Edited by joker5 on 01-19-2004 at 11:40 PM GMT]

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The_Red_Hawk
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You forgot to use secret text.

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The red hawk's dance of death.

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DiMono
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joker5 wrote:
Trivial Solution: Staircase 4-3.

Great hold, though.

~joker5

Expected Solution: Staircase 4-3. You're supposed to go that way. I guess I should stick a green door down there somewhere though, since you're not supposed to be able to leave early.

And thanks, I worked hard on it

[Edited by DiMono on 01-19-2004 at 07:42 PM GMT]

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joker5
Level: Smitemaster
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Ah fudge. Sorry, all

~joker5

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Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

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DiMono
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joker5 wrote:
Ah fudge. Sorry, all

I hope you didn't take my "thanks, I worked hard" as a slight to your forgetting to use [secret] tags, I was thanking you for liking my hold

[Edited by DiMono on 09-04-2004 at 12:12 AM GMT]

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eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

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The Dungeon, - level 2 Entrance REALLY needs a checkpoint.

Great hold so far, by the way (I played level 1 before but all the rest were new to me).

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joker5
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I know, and I hope you make more holds soon.

I'm just wondering, what kind of plans do you have for some of the elements in the upcoming 1.7?

~joker5

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eytanz
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Oh, and the scroll in 1E is just annoying.

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Scott
Level: Smitemaster
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The dungeon level 2 was evil but I finally did it.

It appears that its impossible to get back from the dungeon level 3 1S3E after killing the goblins.

Also how do you kill the snake in 2E? Its so short I can't get it to turn away from me.

[Edited by Scott on 01-20-2004 at 07:19 AM GMT]

eytanz
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Scott wrote:
It appears that its impossible to get back from the dungeon level 3 1S3E after killing the goblins.

It is impossible, which makes this level unbeatable. Luckily, the hold is anyone-edit, so we can skip ahead.

[Edited by eytanz on 01-20-2004 at 08:00 PM GMT]

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DiMono
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Scott wrote:
The dungeon level 2 was evil but I finally did it.

It appears that its impossible to get back from the dungeon level 3 1S3E after killing the goblins.

Also how do you kill the snake in 2E? Its so short I can't get it to turn away from me.

Be glad I decided to stop when I did with Dungeon 2, I just plain ran out of ideas Should I add a checkpoint in the bottom-right of 1S1W, near the area break?

I've fixed the goblin problem by inserting a green door, and I can assure you it's possible to kill the snake, as I've done it. maybe that's a room I'll include a demo for on the front screen, since I'm planning to put a few there anyway.

Oh, and I've realized I don't have much to say above-ground, so I'll just wait until I've finished it and release it all at once. I'm anxious for overall feedback though, what do you all think of it?

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DiMono
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joker5 wrote:
I'm just wondering, what kind of plans do you have for some of the elements in the upcoming 1.7?

None yet, I'm going to wait until it's released and I know exactly what's in it and what they do before I start making plans. And thank you for the encouragement, it's always nice to hear.

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eytanz
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I really liked Dungeon level 2, except for the first room - it's just too cramped and repetitive, and you can't take a break and do another room instead. The room itself is good, I just don't like that it's the first room in the level.

Dugeon level 2 is FAR harder than dungeon level 3, though. I'd recommend re-ordering them.

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Scott
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But the room depends on being able to start in the middle so wouldn't really be able to be moved.

eytanz
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I'm pretty sure it's possible to build a room on similar principles without the middleness being as essential.

I just felt very upset at that room - I'm in a new level and all I can do is replay the same #$&@%$^ 5-by-13 room over and over with a 0 margin of error. A checkpoint or two would have helped (one on each side - so once I cleared that half of the room optimally, I wouldn't have to repeat). But basically, if you build unforgiving rooms, it's very good policy to also offer alternatives you can do instead for a while.

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DiMono
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eytanz wrote:
I really liked Dungeon level 2, except for the first room - it's just too cramped and repetitive, and you can't take a break and do another room instead. The room itself is good, I just don't like that it's the first room in the level.

Dugeon level 2 is FAR harder than dungeon level 3, though. I'd recommend re-ordering them.

You do realize there's a simple pattern to clear the trapdoors in the middle of that room, and that from there it's a simple task to stop the tar, right?

I was hoping the small size of Dungeon 2 would make up for the concept making it a difficult level. If enough people agree, I'll see about reordering the levels to something more reasonable.

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eytanz
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DiMono wrote:

eytanz wrote:
I really liked Dungeon level 2, except for the first room - it's just too cramped and repetitive, and you can't take a break and do another room instead. The room itself is good, I just don't like that it's the first room in the level.

Dugeon level 2 is FAR harder than dungeon level 3, though. I'd recommend re-ordering them.

You do realize there's a simple pattern to clear the trapdoors in the middle of that room, and that from there it's a simple task to stop the tar, right?

Well, maybe I missed it, or maybe we have a different concept of simple. (Though it wasn't hard - it was just unforgiving. A single wrong move usually meant restarting. This room took me more time than all the other rooms on the level combined).

I was hoping the small size of Dungeon 2 would make up for the concept making it a difficult level. If enough people agree, I'll see about reordering the levels to something more reasonable.

The level was great - but size and difficulty are unrelated features as far as game-balance goes. A level consisting of 1 hard room should still be placed after a level with 25 moderate difficulty rooms.

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Scott
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I found that room took me ages. I got frustrated with it that I just stopped playing for a few hours and then came back.

DiMono
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Well, I've added two checkpoints to Dungeon 2 entrance, outside the red door on either side of it, and added 3 checkpoints to 1S1W and moved another, and I killed that scroll in 1E. I'm hesitant to move the level, because I'd have to create a new one to take its place, but if the consensus is that it's too hard for where it is then I'll bow to the mob. I have a place I can move it to logically, I'm just not looking forward to manipulating the levels in the editor.

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eytanz
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Why not just swap levels 2 and 3? All it requires is that you change the destination on the stairs in the three dungeon levels; the levels will be listed out of order in the restore window but that's a minor issue.

Oh, and surprisingly (even to me), I didn't really think 1S1W needed more checkpoints - though they can't hurt. I found it to be a not very difficult, but very fun, room.

[Edited by eytanz on 01-21-2004 at 05:16 AM GMT]

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eytanz
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Whew. Completed the hold (using the editor to skip the goblin room bug, and also skipping the room with the snake and 3 mimic potions in Dungeon level 3, since I hate snake manipulation of that sort).

I really enjoyed it; nothing much else to add to what I've already said earlier.



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DiMono
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I think I will add a demo of the snake and mimic room in the final version...

And yes, the secret text is correct.

It's not so much that 1S1W is difficult, just I went to playtest it and had to continue from a substantial loss of progress because a couple checkpoints weren't where they should be, or weren't there at all.

And I'm a big fan of having levels in the order they're encountered, which is why I don't want to just change the stairs directions. You think I could get away with just swapping them though? I was thinking my idea would be to put Dungeon 2 at the top of the spiral staircase, put some major distance between it and Dungeon 3, and put some other dungeon-esque level in it's place. I guess I'll wait for more feedback.

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eytanz
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That would work too, I guess. Note that your current order isn't bad. It's just a bit weird to play a very difficult level and jump back to a level which is mostly about navigation with one or two somewhat challanging rooms in it.

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bandit1200
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I reached the last Spiral level and came to a sudden halt. Maybe I'm fatty gued from lack of sleep, but I just can't see how to kill that damn roach. If I collapse the trapdoor I can't get back, and if I do, the roach is out of reach. Teeny weeny tip anyone?

Oh, and I think Dungeon level 2 should be tied up in a sack, weighted, and thrown in a deep river.

eytanz
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I'm pretty sure that you meant that if you don't collapse the trapdoor, you can't get back.

You're right - but there's a trick:


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