Oneiromancer
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New (11/17/03): The Holds forum is now active so I have uploaded the final version there and removed the old version from here. Thanks everyone for your suggestions!

New (11/4/03): version 5 is up. The revisions in this release are not extremely major, just implementing some suggestions playtesters gave to me and other stuff I thought of. The warp room is still there, FYI.

Level 1:

2E: Added red door to match style of other rooms on this level. Does not affect gameplay of room.

3E: Added red door right next to trapdoors to hopefully prevent trivial solutions: the wraithwings get stuck on the other side so you have to remove the door. Now they have to be killed on a green door instead. Red and green doors also added to keep level style.

6E: Added blue door because why isn't there one there? Although now I don't think that someone can get there without conquering the rest of the rooms anyway, but it's good to be safe.

Level 2

1S 3W: Pruned back yellow doors and added force arrows to enforce intended solution.

Level 4

1S 1W: Removed a 2x2 brick and added a green door to make it...um...easier to exit the room after beating it. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Thanks for playtesting, it is pretty much done now, at least until someone else finds something!

New (10/30/03): version 4 is up. This is a major revision, detailed as follows:

Level 1: there is now a warp room directly to the West of The Entrance of the hold, for those who want to skip around in levels. I have not made any major changes to the first level, I can't remember if there is more than what was done in version 2, but if anyone wants to play it again and look for trivial solutions they are welcome to (especially if they found one before).

Level 2: has been completely revamped. There are now 8 additional rooms. The first and last rooms are the same as before, but the intervening ones are all interconnected. This means that even though I playtested it satisfactorily, it is really hard for me to find unintended solutions without other people helping who don't know the solutions. So this is the most important part to test. Also, I think it is pretty unique and hopefully fun. (Note: yes, I suck at making orb puzzles. If you want to redo one of the puzzles after beating it and send it to me I will be happy to use it. Give yourself credit in a scroll in that room.)

Level 3: I only made major changes to the last two rooms in the hold, the ones with the serpents. Hopefully they are more fun and especially for the North one, not as random. More challenging, though. I apologize for making people fight through the rest of the level to get here, I can release these rooms as separate ones if people complain.

Level 4: this is the level with the next most drastic changes. I added rooms to the four corners, so it is now a square instead of a "plus". However, these extra rooms are all taken from my The Dreaming holds, as I mentioned in the poll on this board. I did make some changes to these rooms which in general made them tougher, although more checkpoints were added in some cases. And I also changed 1E so that it could only be solved by entering on the West side of the room. 1N and 1S should also still only be solveable by entering from The Entrance (especially if the trivial solution to 1N is fixed by adding the brains, as I think it is.)

Also (and this is a spoiler, so don't read it if you don't want to be spoiled!)...

So I hope that everyone enjoys the changes and gives me lots of criticism! This is basically the final version of the hold, barring small changes, that is intended to be added to the DROD user-made holds section of DROD.net, whenever that is implemented.

New (10/24/03): version 3 is up. The only change is the last staircase should actually end the hold instead of starting the last level over again. No real reason to download this one unless you've never played the hold before.

New (10/8/03): version 2 is up. This includes minor changes, making it (hopefully) impossible to trivially solve level 1: 3E and level 2: 1W, and enforcing the "correct" solutions to level 1: 1E and 5E and level 2: entrance. The biggest change was to level 2: entrance, but I still would only suggest downloading the new version if you haven't yet played the original. I'll make a larger update with more drastic changes later.

I think I'll let this hold speak for itself. It was fun making it, I hope you guys like it. And I didn't even copy rooms from my other holds...much.

The usual disclaimer: I have personally beaten the hold, and certify that all the rooms are solveable and that there are no unintentional dead-ends.

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 11-04-2003 at 11:47 PM GMT: new version]

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 11-17-2003 at 09:52 PM GMT]

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

eytanz
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Nice hold - it is proof that a hold can have good puzzles and not be insanely difficult. I think anyone who reaches the middle of Dugan's Dungeon should be able to solve most of these.

The one thing that annoyed me a bit is its extreme linearity - except for the last level. This means that whenever I got frustrated with a room I had no choice but drop the hold altogether for a while. On the other hand, I only got really frustrated once, so it's not that bad.

Level/Room specific notes:


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Oneiromancer
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eytanz wrote:
Nice hold - it is proof that a hold can have good puzzles and not be insanely difficult. I think anyone who reaches the middle of Dugan's Dungeon should be able to solve most of these.

Except for the few rooms with brains, so I would only recommend this hold to those who've at least gotten to level 20 (and they probably should just beat Dugan's to be safe).

The one thing that annoyed me a bit is its extreme linearity - except for the last level. This means that whenever I got frustrated with a room I had no choice but drop the hold altogether for a while. On the other hand, I only got really frustrated once, so it's not that bad.

The first and third levels make sense as linear ones, I think. I had originally planned the second level, the Vault, to be a bigger square. But I really couldn't think of enough ideas, so I constricted it. I might expand it to more rooms in the future, when I get more ideas.



Thanks for the comments!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

StuartK
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Eytanz, I wanted to comment on a few of your observations (and add general comments at the same time for sake of efficiency), and to make discussion easier, I split everything up. I also didn't place secret tags around anything I didn't think was spoily - hope you don't mind. I also hope I didn't make any stupid mistakes. Nested UBB quotes can get a little mind bending for me.

eytanz wrote:

L1 1E


L1 2E & 3E


L1 4E


L1 5E


L2 Entrance


L2 1W


L3 1W

L3 1W - Fun room.

Ayup.

L3 2W


L3 5W


L3 1N 5W


L4 1W


L4 1S


L4 1E


L4 1N

Anyway, a great hold.

I agree

eytanz
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About L4 1N:



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eytanz
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StuartK wrote:

L1 1E

Click here to view the secret text

×Quite fun, but did you escape through the red door, or choose the easy route to the left? Can all the red tiles be cleared, and Beethro end up in the right place? I've not done so yet, mainly because I didn't need to.

Yeah, I left through the red door. It never occured to me to use the other side. In any case, it'd be easy to fix this by adding arrows or something.

Oneiromancer
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StuartK wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×L1 1E Quite fun, but did you escape through the red door, or choose the easy route to the left? Can all the red tiles be cleared, and Beethro end up in the right place? I've not done so yet, mainly because I didn't need to.

Ack! No, you're supposed to be required to open the red door. I guess I'll add some arrows instead of the green doors.

3E was disappointing when the maze amounted to one big red herring, when clearing all the wraithwings on the left.

Ack again! I meant for you to have to leave one red square open so that you could only kill the wraithwings on the red door. But it looks like you went around the outside again. More arrows I guess...

L2 1W I found another trivial solution here - just stand on the door when you hit the orb, and you can kill all but one of the goblins from there.

Ack thrice! I need to fix that too.

L3 2W

L3 2W I enjoyed it. I had a bit of an interesting problem manoevering the brain controlled spiders such that I didn't get surrounded.

Yeah, that's what I intended.

Oneiromancer
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eytanz wrote:
L4 1W

Click here to view the secret text

×

Yes it's similar to other rooms, but I enjoyed it (maybe I just have a higher tolerance threshold for DROD rooms than you )

Actually I was making a referrence to the fact that the very same room (maybe with a different maze arrangement, but the exact same principle) appears in Onieromancer's first hold, The Dreaming.

Yes, it is nearly identical to 1W in The Dreaming 2. I almost included some of my "greatest hits," at least according to people's comments, as rooms in level 2, but I didn't want to make people go through them again. I'll just donate them to the collaborative hold. But I was having trouble thinking of a room with tar that didn't have lots of walls which don't make sense in the setting of this story. So I filched my own room design. My first post above mentioned it, so you were warned!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

zex20913
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I have completed the hold, but don't have anything new to say. Twas a good challenge.

I found what Stuart did in L2 1W.

And from the restore screen in Build 42 (I think) the fourth level looks odd. That may or may not have been fixed, I haven't really paid much attention to the Bugs board recently.

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Oneiromancer
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zex20913 wrote:
And from the restore screen in Build 42 (I think) the fourth level looks odd. That may or may not have been fixed, I haven't really paid much attention to the Bugs board recently.

Perhaps because I have no walls on the borders of the rooms?

I'm glad you found it a good challenge.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Scott
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eytanz wrote:
About L4 1N:

Click here to view the secret text

×
I was hoping to solve the room without ever using the potion, but the problem is that there's no way to actually kill the queen in the corner without dying; so I then ran to the invisibility potion and mopped up the roaches.

Oneiromancer
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Well, I'm stumped. Anyone have any suggestions on how to enforce my intended solution to L4 1N? I mean, ingenuity is all well and good, but I definitely had a certain puzzle in mind for that room, which I thought was somewhat unique. Every solution I've come up with so far makes a new spot for the serpent to die on.

Edit: okay, here's what I did:



Too drastic? If there are no other suggestions I will keep it, although I still will try not to release a new version until I add some more rooms. And I will have a warp room then too.

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 10-09-2003 at 06:14 PM]

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Atch
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Treasure Hunt was my second hold played and it was immediately apparent that I should desist from such expressions as ‘The best room in the history of DROD’ until I have played them all. For sheer enjoyment the inventiveness in design of rooms in this and the other holds I have played to date: Moria, ImpossibleCubes, Happyhouse, Claythro Tower and The Tomb of Nomb have eclipsed the original DROD for me. I hope that such a sentiment does not offend Erik, really he should be immensely proud of what he has started.

Rather than go through it room by room I shall just pick out what I considered to be the highlights of Treasure Hunt.

I love a good hard roach battle so found the beginning of Tomb Raider tremendous and reminiscent of getting to the scroll without leaving the room in Dugan’s, Level 3, 2N, although on a much larger scale. 1E and 5E posed excellent logistical problems.

My favourite room was the Tomb Vault entrance: Those of you who let the tar grow to contain the roaches were deprived of another epic roach battle.

My overall favourite level was The Horde, notably for 1S – I have perfected my mimic guard and can now clear the room without losing a single man. I too was surprised at the effect of the Potion of Invisibility on the movement of the snake and spawning. I would rationalize it by saying that, in DRODland, there is no movement or spawning when Beethro is not in the room and so shouldn’t be when they think he is not in the room.

I encountered two bugs when playing this hold on build 46. I downloaded it a second time to check if the first had been corrupted but found the same. Firstly, in Tomb Escaper, on entering 2W the Potion of Invisibility was already activated and was switched off when the potion proper was taken. Without invisibility it was just possible to reach a safe position then clear the room so this was possibly an improvement. Secondly, on being asked to exit The Horde, I did so only to find myself back in The Horde again! I gather that this should have been the end and the same thing happened on exiting Level 3 of Claythro Tower (Levels 4 to 6 where available in Build in this case) so it may be a problem with build 46.

Thanks Neil, it was great fun, I look forward to your next.

Oneiromancer
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Atch wrote:
I encountered two bugs when playing this hold on build 46. I downloaded it a second time to check if the first had been corrupted but found the same. Firstly, in Tomb Escaper, on entering 2W the Potion of Invisibility was already activated and was switched off when the potion proper was taken. Without invisibility it was just possible to reach a safe position then clear the room so this was possibly an improvement.

Actually, if you re-enter the room from the West you can see what really happened: there was an invisibility potion right at the entrance. A feature of DROD is that taking a second invisibility potion removes the invisibility effect (it wasn't like this at first, but Mike added it). The method you used to beat the room was the intended one. I suppose I could have also just had the first trapdoor be the only one, and the spiders be behind a red door, and it would have had the same effect. But I didn't want to, so there!

Secondly, on being asked to exit The Horde, I did so only to find myself back in The Horde again! I gather that this should have been the end and the same thing happened on exiting Level 3 of Claythro Tower (Levels 4 to 6 where available in Build in this case) so it may be a problem with build 46.

No, this is my fault, when modifying that room I forgot to set the stairway to End Hold. I realize now that this means that you can't open my hold in the editor, and I apologize for that. This was brought up in the Bugs forum but I didn't think it was worth changing until I realized this. I'll add a new version to the first post, one that will be useful for new players but is kind of pointless to download for those who already played it.

Thanks for the criticisms and compliments! One of these days I am going to expand and improve this hold some more. I will probably make it my "signature" hold, by taking the good rooms from my "The Dreaming" holds and including them in The Vault or perhaps in a secret level.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Oneiromancer
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Just a bump to let everyone know that a new version of my hold is up in the top post. This is a major revision with several new rooms. The details are in the top post.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Schik
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Level 2: has been completely revamped. There are now 8 additional rooms. The first and last rooms are the same as before, but the intervening ones are all interconnected.

This set of 8 connected rooms kicks ass.

Seriously. Love it. Reminds me of the interconnected rooms in a hold that eytanz made (which kicked much ass as well).

I *love* the interconnected rooms idea. It was sorely underused in Dugan's Dungeon.

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Oneiromancer
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Schik wrote:Reminds me of the interconnected rooms in a hold that eytanz made (which kicked much ass as well).

Yes, that was my inspiration. I even asked him for advice on making it, and he gave me some history of how he did his rooms and some other suggestions. Actually, I think mine is more linear than Eytan's in a way.

When designing it, I came up with the general layout first, with the two small hallways and the other two larger ones, and then I had to figure out the path that had to be taken. Then I just built puzzles around that.

One thing I wasn't sure about was how many red herrings I should have. For example, I could have added more entrances to certain areas from the wrong direction. However, I figured a careful player would check everything out first and make an educated guess as to the correct path, making those entrances pointless.

Anyway, glad you liked it, I hope others do too, and any suggestions for improvement are welcome!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

agaricus5
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It's a very interesting hold, up to the point at which I've got, especially L1 3E:



However, I'm stuck on the Entrance of Level 2. I can't seem to get rid of the tar Babies -



____________________________
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Oneiromancer
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agaricus5 wrote:
It's a very interesting hold, up to the point at which I've got, especially L1 3E:

Click here to view the secret text

×I really couldn't think how I could kill the wraithwing until I realised the solution was absurdly simple - I forgot I could leave the way I came in!

Ah. I thought putting the force arrows there would take care of that exploit, I forgot people could leave. My intended solution was...



It probably only needs a small change to make that happen, I will think about it.

However, I'm stuck on the Entrance of Level 2. I can't seem to get rid of the tar Babies -

Click here to view the secret text

×There appear to be too many of them to deal with at once - I can't leave the goblin chamber once I strike the orb in it, and the serpent is not long enough to hold off the hordes of babies for long enough to let me survive. Does the room require efficiency, or am I missing something?

Yes, efficiency for too many tar babies not to appear is definitely necessary.



By removing the tar from the corridor with the doors I did make the room harder, so if too many people complain I can make fewer tar babies spawn...from 4 per spawn down to 3. I won't mind adding another version because it is possible to warp to that room now and so it won't inconvenience too many people if they get stuck there.

I am glad you like it so far too!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

agaricus5
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Yes, efficiency for too many tar babies not to appear is definitely necessary.

Click here to view the secret text

×I killed the serpent and goblins fast enough to only have 22 babies to kill, which is certainly do-able. Probably another spawn is also possible (maybe even another, but that's pushing it). You need to kill the serpent in a certain way, and there is also a good way to easily and quickly kill the goblins.

Ah... I tried to...

By removing the tar from the corridor with the doors I did make the room harder, so if too many people complain I can make fewer tar babies spawn...from 4 per spawn down to 3. I won't mind adding another version because it is possible to warp to that room now and so it won't inconvenience too many people if they get stuck there.

Well, I managed to open the tar baby chamber with 17 babies, and 4 more were created a few moves after in the next spawn cycle. I think that as long as the babies do not fill the entire goblin chamber entrance at once, you can have more than 21 babies coming out of it and still survive. If you're efficient, then it's not really much of a problem to get rid of them. I think you should keep it as it is.

____________________________
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Scott
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I finished the new level 2 and yeah its fun except 1 point. I know I was inefficient but I had to go through 1N2W about half a dozen times. Doing that bit is tedious after the first 2 times.

1S1W

And I also changed 1E so that it could only be solved by entering on the West side of the room.

I did it from the north.



[Edited by Scott on 11-01-2003 at 05:26 AM GMT]

Oneiromancer
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Scott wrote:
I finished the new level 2 and yeah its fun except 1 point. I know I was inefficient but I had to go through 1N2W about half a dozen times. Doing that bit is tedious after the first 2 times.

Hmmm...my apologies...but look at it this way, at least I didn't have even more red herrings... . Since at least that bit is pretty easy even though it's tedious I probably won't change it unless I get a burst of inspiration or I get a suggestion on how to improve it. Wait...here comes something...if I reduce the number of passageways it should be possible to go through it without making any tar babies, but then I would probably add some small twists so they weren't totally straight. So this way the first time would be a little work but after that it would go much faster if your memory was good. How does that sound?

1S1W

Click here to view the secret text

×Did you mean this room to be solved by running through it and out the top then back from that side? Because thats how I did it.

And I also changed 1E so that it could only be solved by entering on the West side of the room.

I did it from the north.

Yes, but did you enter from the West side of the North? I know it is possible to beat it by entering of the West side of the room from either of the three adjacent rooms, but it should not be over on the East side from the North or South. So exactly where did you enter the room?

Thanks for the comments!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

StuartK
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Great and exceptional additions to a fun hold.

L13E


L2 The layout was of course beautiful. In practice, I did alot of just running around in circles looking for rooms I could now solve. I reckon this is about the upper limit in size for such an interconnected multi-room puzzle. Or maybe I'd have gained greater enjoyment by concentrating more.

There is such an 'interconnected' puzzle in Dugan, whereby if you're not careful, you have to go through a very tedious room, L153W, twice. I'm not making any particular criticisms of L2, here which is altogether more generous, but it's just something for hold designers to bear in mind.

L2 3W


L2 1S3W


L3 No comments here, they're all rooms I've previously encountered, except for the slight revisions to a couple, which are good improvements.

L4 1S1W


If anyone has not completed the hold yet, please don't reveal the next secret (moreso than the others)




Now I've just encountered a bug, and all my save information is gone, except for a restore point at the start of each level, so no more comments

[EDIT] ...And now I've realised it's not a bug. I had two holds with the same name in my hold list. One with complete data, one without. Don't make the same mistake kids.

[Edited by StuartK on 11-01-2003 at 12:29 PM GMT]

Scott
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Level 2 3W


I entered level 4 1E in the west section yes. Will have to try the east section and see if its possible.

[Edited by Scott on 11-01-2003 at 07:43 AM GMT]

Oneiromancer
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StuartK wrote:
Great and exceptional additions to a fun hold.

Thanks!

L13E

Click here to view the secret text

×L1 3E
You could make the first corridor shorter, or add arrows to the entrance (or indeed arrows to the first corridor) making the quick solution impossible.

Here's what I have done:

There is such an 'interconnected' puzzle in Dugan, whereby if you're not careful, you have to go through a very tedious room, L153W, twice.

Actually, yeah, I discovered this on replay of Dugan's...after I beat it the first time. But then I realized I'm just doing it to record demos, so I can just skip around.

L2 3W

Click here to view the secret text

×It took me a *long* time to get a solution to this one, many attempts, and I'm not at all sure if it's the one you intended. Is it only possible to complete this room entering from the south, and using careful queen management? I liked the solution it when I got it, but it must have taken me 50 restarts. I just could not finish the room entering from the top left (first snake was easy, second horribly difficult or impossible, unless I'm missing something)

See Scott's comment above for what you're missing...you must have removed the key before it was used.

L2 1S3W

Click here to view the secret text

×The outer corridor trapdoor puzzle was excellent. For the central puzzle, again I'm not sure if I got the intended solution. Entered from the east, moved to the west, waited for the queen to reach an open yellow door, and that's it.

Ah, thanks, you found another unintended solution.

L4 1S1W

Click here to view the secret text

×Stabbing into wraithwings where two are side by side is scary (and perhaps non-intuitive) without an, umm, checkpoint. But I still liked this room.

Wraithwing behavior can still be uncharted territory, yes.

If anyone has not completed the hold yet, please don't reveal the next secret (moreso than the others) [more stuff I won't repeat]

I don't think I understand what you mean...I will send you a PM asking some questions. Oh. Wait. Is it because...oh, I know what you mean. Damn. That's one of those things, where I playtested through the level, got to a room, and realized I had to make changes, then I started from that room and beat it to get a demo but didn't go any farther. My apologies...



And my condolences for the data loss, were you using the updated drod.exe that Erik supplied?

Game on,

[Edited by Oneiromancer on 11-01-2003 at 06:01 PM GMT]

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

StuartK
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Scott wrote:
Level 2 3W

Click here to view the secret text

×It is possible from the top left. I didn't use roaches to kill the snakes.

*smacks forehead* Blindingly obvious of course. I'm sensing a common theme here with my recent posts. Perhaps I need some sleep.

Oneiromancer
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Registered: 03-29-2003
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Once again, a new version is up. Pretty minor changes, well, I guess one of them is rather important. I don't expect too many more people will want to play through it again, but hopefully there are some out there who downloaded it but never played it and now they can get this new version. But with all the help I've had there shouldn't be too many more issues with the hold...crossing fingers...

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

Last call for comments!

Yes, a little bird has told me that the next addition the DROD website and forum will be going live relatively soon. That next addition is the place where completely finished user-made holds will be stored. Therefore, I would like to ask anyone who has any comments on Treasure Hunt to make them now. If you've been putting off saying something because you assumed that someone else would say it because it is so freaking obvious, well, now's the time to say something! If I hear nothing then my ego may inflate to dangerous levels, so please, bring it on!

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Well, I only got around to playing this version today (I've been too busy for DROD solving over most of the past two weeks), but here's a minor comment, hoping it's not too late:

In L2, 1N1W, you can cross the arrows. This is really insignificant, as you can easily reach both sides of them anyway, but I'm not sure if this is intended or not.

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I got my avatar back! Yay!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

Exactly what do you mean by "cross the arrows"? What part of the room are you referring to? If you're talking about the outer perimeter I wasn't trying to do anything fancy with the arrow positioning, and the room isn't too difficult anyway, so it might not be a trick. But I think I need more specifics before I can tell.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams