agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Did you playtest Level 21 1W?

As far as I can see...

In 1W, there is nowhere to stand safely when you open the chambers to allow the horde of wraithwings into the central area.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 02-17-2004 at 02:53 PM GMT]

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Heh heh...[evil laugh]

Yes there is.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Heh heh...[evil laugh]

Yes there is.

Actually, on a second glance, I don't see what's so evil, Hawk.



I see the solution from this now - the room itself is now quite easy.

Really, there's no need to be rude. If you know something that I don't, just say so plainly - don't mock.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

No offence. I just thought that people would get it after only a few minutes of working...

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Just out of curiosity, what are everybody's favourite rooms in this hold?

-so I can make more in future.....

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
IP: Logged

I have now downloaded Deep Hold XXI: Smiting in Vain and made my way down from the start of Level 17. I encountered no problems until Level 21 where I am now stuck on two rooms: 2S, 1E and 3E.

You describe 2S, 1E Hawk as an impossible room that is yet required. To clear the room you need to be able to go through the green gates, below the tar mother and around the orb, before the brains are killed. How can we do this? Have you discovered a ‘trick’ to rival The Fool’s Errand? Hint please.

I also need a hint for 3E as it appears to be the only route to 1N, 4E (the exit?)– is there another trick here or are the trapdoors a red herring? Firstly, you need living tar to gain access to both orbs and secondly, it is impossible to drop all the trapdoors in several places.

As for favourite rooms well I would just carry on as you are Hawk. There are some excellent rooms in Deep Hold – Level 21: 1S, 1E is a particularly fine single wraithwing/maze puzzle – that more than make up for the odd dud. There are some tedious mopping-up rooms such as Level 19: 2N, 4E, Level 20: 3N, 2W (no checkpoints) and almost all of Level 18 that I could do without. Some other rooms rely on arbitrary guesswork or, barring that, a considerable amount of trial and error before starting – the initial placement of the mimics in Level 20: 2N, 1W for example. I was very grateful to use the shortcut provided.

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Atch wrote:
You describe 2S, 1E Hawk as an impossible room that is yet required. To clear the room you need to be able to go through the green gates, below the tar mother and around the orb, before the brains are killed. How can we do this? Have you discovered a ‘trick’ to rival The Fool’s Errand? Hint please.

Stupid me. The scroll is actually just meant to be a joke, but I forgot that brains are counted as monsters. Sorry. It should be possible now.

I also need a hint for 3E as it appears to be the only route to 1N, 4E (the exit?)– is there another trick here or are the trapdoors a red herring? Firstly, you need living tar to gain access to both orbs and secondly, it is impossible to drop all the trapdoors in several places.

The trapdoors are definetly possible. The trick with the tar is...SPOILER:

Level 21: 1S, 1E is a particularly fine single wraithwing/maze puzzle – that more than make up for the odd dud.

Actually, it goes to agaricus. I just made a new maze.

There are some tedious mopping-up rooms such as Level 19: 2N, 4E, Level 20: 3N, 2W (no checkpoints) and almost all of Level 18 that I could do without.

19:2N4E is just for a unique slaughterfest with a mimic phalanx. 3N2W has checkpoints in the upper left and lower right. Level 18 is really for stress relief.

Some other rooms rely on arbitrary guesswork or, barring that, a considerable amount of trial and error before starting – the initial placement of the mimics in Level 20: 2N, 1W for example. I was very grateful to use the shortcut provided.

The reason I did the shortcut was because that when I played it, even I couldn't get it done!

I'm glad you're enjoying this, though.....

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:

Level 21: 3E

The trapdoors are definitely possible. The trick with the tar is...SPOILER:

Click here to view the secret text

× Entering from the west, create a tar baby before leaving so the room is still red. Then come back, do the trapdoors, and use the mimic to kill the mother.

Yes a touch tricky in places but definitely doable – how could I have doubted you Hawk? It turns out to be a really great room and I now wish that I had studied it a bit closer before declaring it impossible – I had wondered about the crumbly walls. Of course I had to clear it twice after forgetting to clear 1N, 3E first but I eventually found 1N, 4E and the exit.

So that just leaves the amended 2S, 1E and 2S, 2E (not possible entering from the north) to complete Level 21 – I’ll look forward to doing these rooms and the rest of the level again in the next instalment.

As for my favourite room in Level 21 so far: 1W; 3E and 1S, 1E get an honourable mention but first place goes to 1S, 2E, not an original but a very enjoyable chasing the tail room after entering from the west. I had spent a lot of time trying to clear this room from the north but could only survive by going into the brain-pit resulting in stalemate.

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:

Level 21: 1S, 1E is a particularly fine single wraithwing/maze puzzle – that more than make up for the odd dud.

Actually, it goes to agaricus. I just made a new maze.

I really didn't want to say anything, but since you mentioned it, I will say that I thought so the moment I first saw the room. However, it relies less on wraithwing behaviour and more on normal roach logic than mine does due to the fact that there are more dead-ends to use to your advantage on the edges.



____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

After a looooooong break from Deep Hold (and almost the whole game completely) I've finally gotten down to finishing Level 22 - Halvsies.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I can't playtest your hold, Hawk.

I've tried to do L22, 1N, but the method I use to solve rooms like this is just not possible to do, because I can't edit the room, and am not going to re-build the room from a drawing program. Plus, even if the room proves too hard for me, I cannot skip to the next either.

Why can't you post an Anyone Edit version?

I was at first reluctant to do this myself, but the results far outstripped the problems, and it makes testing easier as people don't have to do all the rooms if they don't want to. Plus, it will help testing your other levels as well.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

I don't understand you. I think 1N is actually pretty easy. The path of the mimic is very straightforward.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
I don't understand you. I think 1N is actually pretty easy. The path of the mimic is very straightforward.

Hawk, understand that while you may know the solution, I do not, and what appears easy to you because you know what the start sequence is does not to me because I need to figure it out.

I look at the room and see it is very similar at least to the entrance of my I Ching hold and the entrance to level 10 of Bavato's Dungeon. For such a reason, and considering that there are no checkpoints, I wish to work out the solution of the room rather than guess at it, and the method I choose to use requires editing the room. I could use a drawing program to capture the image of the room, and then copy it over to work out its solution in DROD, but I really don't have the patience right now to sit there and transfer the data over, considering that I will need to work out the solution straught after. Perhaps if you want, you could tell me which square the mimic should begin on and the first few moves to start off the sequence, but if I have to use this non-editable version to test, and I become stuck, I won't keep posting here just to ask for help primarily because it's just inefficient.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Well, of course it starts on the floor square. From there, I think your path (of the mimic) should be quite obvious. Look at the mimic path, not Beethro's path.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

File: L22 1N.gif (73.3 KB)
Downloaded 98 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Well, of course it starts on the floor square. From there, I think your path (of the mimic) should be quite obvious. Look at the mimic path, not Beethro's path.

I really shouldn't be arguing with you.

I really shouldn't, especially as I want to help test your hold, but there is something that resembles arrogance in your post, which is annoying me somewhat. Therefore, I'm going to contest your post and say that your information is wrong. Please look at this picture. Ringed in blue are the two floor squares that could logically be used to position the mimic. There are therefore two different places which could be the start positions, not one.

What I'm asking is for just a move or two of the start sequence. I have built rooms like this before, so I know about how to go about them. It's just I've tried about 20 different starting combinations by guesswork, and this has not produced good results, So I would like to know if I'm going about the room in the correct way or not.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 06-06-2004 at 01:56 PM GMT]

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Oops..... Start on the southern square.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Well, I can't do it.

I think your room is impossible, but I may be wrong.

Could you first re-check that the room has indeed posssible, and perhaps give me the start few moves to make?



____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

All right, I'll tell you. There's a trick to it.



____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
All right, I'll tell you. There's a trick to it.

Click here to view the secret text

× Who says you have to place the mimic on your first move?

Even so, it's still impossible as far as I'm concerned because...



What am I missing? Could you please check yourself that you can make a demo for this room's completion (from the left side) and perhaps PM me the starting sequence from the first move after you place the mimic?

If not, I'll just give up because I don't see how the room is possible.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
IP: Logged

I think I've almost got it. Agaricus: Is that right, Hawk?

~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Yes, that's part of the solution.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Hookj5
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 13
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

I am looking everywhere, but I can't find where to download this.

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Look for one of red hawks posts on this page (page 10).

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

I went through 23:1N, and I found that even I couldn't resolve it, though I'm sure it's possible. Besides, this room was the one I submitted for the Contest Hold, and nobody said it was impossible then.

Anyways, I completely remade it - it now includes checkpoints, and is still just as tricky as the previous one was (I hope). Also, I went through it beginning to end to make sure it worked.

Apologies for any inconvenience.



____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
IP: Logged

There's access to level 23 now.

~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
I went through 23:1N, and I found that even I couldn't resolve it, though I'm sure it's possible. Besides, this room was the one I submitted for the Contest Hold, and nobody said it was impossible then.

I told you so.



____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

joker5 wrote:
There's access to level 23 now.

I know - that's intentional. Besides, it's just an empty room.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
IP: Logged

Another wonderful level by Red Hawk. Couldn't find any trivialities except one... Was that it or was there some more complex construction that you wanted us to do? I could find another solution if you like...

~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Yeah, it was supposed to be a little harder. I'll have to change that for next version.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Well, I've had a look at it, and it was fun to play, although a bit tedious in places, 2E being the worst culprit.

With the exception of 3E, which required quite a lot of patience, the rest was of about easy to moderate difficulty, although the idea of splitting the rooms into two was quite interesting.

The only quibble I have is that 2E and 3W could do with checkpoints, but it's sort of minor.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist