The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
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OK, here's Level 15: The Kitchen.

1:1E has been changed and a green door added.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
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File: DH Level Twelve The Fortress 1N.demo (1.3 KB)
Downloaded 74 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Someone said that there is a way to get from outside to inside in 1N. How do you do that?

That someone was me. I have attached a demo of how its done.


[Edited by Scott on 12-14-2003 at 11:28 PM GMT]

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
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I just though of something...You know the "Whole-level demos" thread on the Challenges board? Would anyone be interested in doing it for Deep Hold?

Heh, heh.....And I thought up two other challenges.

1a. Play through Deep Hold in three five-level increments (or a fifteen-level) without using your computer for anything else at the same time.

1b. Play the whole hold at once (Nearly impossible).

2. Play through all the levels in the correct order without dying/restarting once. (Also nearly impossible )

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Is this it then? Deep Hold is 15 levels, ending in the kitchen?

____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Ok I downloaded the level 15 one and started playing lvl 14. Tell me how can you complete 1S1E. To get out after killing everything you need to open the red doors but there are 2 trapdoors that are impossible to reach.

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

DiMono wrote:
Is this it then? Deep Hold is 15 levels, ending in the kitchen?

Most certainly not!




OK Scott, 14:1S1E. One-smilie answer:
Sorry, I was playing the different parts one by one then forgot to do them all together. (again ) Correct version here.

This version includes the first two rooms of level 16, which have *not* been playtested yet.

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 12-17-2003 at 02:11 PM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

This is Deep Hold XVI: Into the Abyss. Have fun with it.....

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 12-20-2003 at 04:25 PM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Scott wrote:

Someone said that there is a way to get from outside to inside in 1N. How do you do that?

That someone was me. I have attached a demo of how its done.

Can you just tell me? Because demos don't work when I am playing in the editor.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

krammer
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 904
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Hawk - how many levels is Deep Hold going to have? Because I have now decided only to download holds which are not going to have levels added in future, as I'd like to play the whole lot in one sitting. I'm just curious as to when you're going to stop.

____________________________
+++ Divide by Cucumber Error +++ Please Reinstall Universe and Reboot +++

"Oook!"

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

krammer wrote:
Hawk - how many levels is Deep Hold going to have? Because I have now decided only to download holds which are not going to have levels added in future, as I'd like to play the whole lot in one sitting. I'm just curious as to when you're going to stop.

If you're one of those who read the hold ending under an earlier version, which I suppose you aren't, it answers the question there (these days I don't have any exits that say END HOLD that you can reach). It says, among other things, "I am planning on Deep Hold being bottomless.....HA HA HAAAAA!!!!!"

If I get tired of it in future, I might post it to Holds, but most likely I will just leave it as is for more addition in future. I know I certainly will not stop till I have topped(?) Dugan's Dungeon.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:

krammer wrote:
Hawk - how many levels is Deep Hold going to have? Because I have now decided only to download holds which are not going to have levels added in future, as I'd like to play the whole lot in one sitting. I'm just curious as to when you're going to stop.

If you're one of those who read the hold ending under an earlier version, which I suppose you aren't, it answers the question there (these days I don't have any exits that say END HOLD that you can reach). It says, among other things, "I am planning on Deep Hold being bottomless.....HA HA HAAAAA!!!!!"

If I get tired of it in future, I might post it to Holds, but most likely I will just leave it as is for more addition in future. I know I certainly will not stop till I have topped(?) Dugan's Dungeon.

Then it's really unlikely that I will ever play it until it shows signs of slowing down - I have completed bits and pieces of it and don't want to lose progress. An important lesson I have learnt in large hold building is to remember that the testers are not robots - consider that they will not want to play level 1 about 25 times over because you have released a new hold for each new level. Also note that your level turnout is very fast and so you may not be giving testers enough time to test each level as it comes - I'm only on level 13 and have large bits and gaps in the middle (Level 5 put me off entirely).

Perhaps you should do what I plan to do - Release an anyone edit version so that testers can look at the rooms they have not had a chance to get to and to get to levels further up that they want to do without having to replay rooms and levels they did in previous releases. It also may speed bug finding and help you solve problems of trivial solutions as people can find them quicker. If you are worried about losing secrets in the hold, then make a new limited edition hold containing only things you want people to see/test.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

agaricus5 wrote:

Then it's really unlikely that I will ever play it until it shows signs of slowing down - I have completed bits and pieces of it and don't want to lose progress. An important lesson I have learnt in large hold building is to remember that the testers are not robots - consider that they will not want to play level 1 about 25 times over because you have released a new hold for each new level. Also note that your level turnout is very fast and so you may not be giving testers enough time to test each level as it comes - I'm only on level 13 and have large bits and gaps in the middle (Level 5 put me off entirely).

Playing only bits and pieces is fine, so long that there are a few people that have played each separate section (i.e. I don't think that testers are robots at all). Also, you don't need to play level 1 about 25 times over because there are level jumps. If you are in the middle of a level when a new release comes, there is no harm in finishing it under that version then simply jumping in the next. My levels mostly remain unchanged when I have finished them.

Perhaps you should do what I plan to do - Release an anyone edit version so that testers can look at the rooms they have not had a chance to get to and to get to levels further up that they want to do without having to replay rooms and levels they did in previous releases. It also may speed bug finding and help you solve problems of trivial solutions as people can find them quicker. If you are worried about losing secrets in the hold, then make a new limited edition hold containing only things you want people to see/test.

I think that anyone-edit is kind of like allowing people to take a copyright from you. I prefer to not allow other people to edit it, because it destroys the singular identity of my hold. I know that it is possible to hack holds to gain editing rights, but I think it should only be done when absolutely necessary. I believe that if you want to see things, you should earn it. (This philosophy also goes against level jumps because it lets new players cheat, but the previous players' numbers are much greater). If you want to go back to rooms you played in a previous version, you can always open up a previous version.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm angry or anything, I'm not even trying to be negative - right now I am "pushed for time".

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
I think that anyone-edit is kind of like allowing people to take a copyright from you.

What? That doesn't make any sense. Copyright means that, whether they edit it or not, it remains your property. Besides, you're totally missing the point of giving anyone edit. No-one will actually edit your hold, and definitely not distribute it here (because you do hold copyright, and if anyone did distribute a modified version of your hold, you'd have every right to demand it removed and I'm sure the webmasters will comply).

And you can't open an earlier version - that's just impossible under DROD. And while I agree that in general people should be able to "earn" their way into the deeper rooms, that doesn't apply to testers - testers are doing you a favor. If you want feedback, you don't make life hard on them. It's as simple as that.

I play your levels because I enjoy them and because I'm more-or-less up to date. But if I get too far behind, I'll probably not play it either.

(it doesn't help that you stick your level warps in places where you must first solve a puzzle to get to them. I may not have to solve level 1 25 times, but I've had to solve the first room of level 1 16 times, and the first rooms of level 6 and 12 multiple times as well. That's rather annoying. Instead of this every-6-levels warp, just make one big level 0 warp level, and then remove it from your final version once it arrives.)

Eytan

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Speaking of testing - the checkpoint in the entrance of level 15 needs to move - you put it somewhere that's impossible to return from. So, if I make any mistake in clearing the trapdoors, I have to do them all over. In my case, it was in the middle of clearing the last trapdoor area. Really, really frustrating.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:
It doesn't help that you stick your level warps in places where you must first solve a puzzle to get to them. I may not have to solve level 1 25 times, but I've had to solve the first room of level 1 16 times, and the first rooms of level 6 and 12 multiple times as well. That's rather annoying. Instead of this every-6-levels warp, just make one big level 0 warp level, and then remove it from your final version once it arrives.

It's not actually every-six-levels. I try to fit in as many as I can in that room without disturbing the puzzle. The level 12 room will have jumps all the way up to 25, since there's lots of space there. Also, I designed the entrance rooms of the warp levels to be fairly easy, and you do not have to not exit it until you complete it. The level one warps were specifically designed so you can reach them before having to engage the wraithwings. Level six, you just wait on the scroll and make a break for it. Level twelve, you solve the roach part, which is easy once you know, then exit through the force arrows to the north and head for the warps. I suppose I could make a new level with just warps, but then I would have to make a jump available in every level, and in some places there is no space (levels 2, 5, 11, 13, and the to-be-eighteen).




I changed the level 15 checkpoint, but you are actually meant to have to enter the serpent area before you clear the trapdoors.

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 12-24-2003 at 12:37 AM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Make a new room, perhaps to the side of the L1 entrance, and re-position Beethro to put him next to this entrance, so that people can get to it easily. This room could be your warp room.

This is a test version, so doing something like this is not really damaging to the hold, for it's only a change to one room that can be easily re-mended when the hold is finished.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

The level 1 entrance is completely surrounded by other rooms.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
I think that anyone-edit is kind of like allowing people to take a copyright from you. I prefer to not allow other people to edit it, because it destroys the singular identity of my hold.

As eytanz implied, the only way someone could "take the copyright" from you would be if they released a new hold using your old rooms. And of course if people here are diligent then they would notice that someone stole some of your rooms. But considering that you have several rooms in your own hold that you admit are heavily based on other people's, I am surprised that you are this concerned.

Now, here's a question for you: what are you going to do when 1.7 comes out? Are you just going to continue adding on levels using the new items? Or are you going to make a new hold then? You see, it might be in your best interest to release a finished 1.6-only hold before 1.7 comes out, so that people will actually take the time to play it instead of ooh-ing and aah-ing over all the cool new stuff. Then when you make a 1.7 hold there will be even more new and interesting puzzles. I know that I'm not planning on releasing another hold until 1.7 comes out. However, I am already working on the overall layout map, so that when the final version is released I can start populating it and making puzzles.

Anyway, just some stuff to think about.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Oneiromancer wrote:

As eytanz implied, the only way someone could "take the copyright" from you would be if they released a new hold using your old rooms. And of course if people here are diligent then they would notice that someone stole some of your rooms. But considering that you have several rooms in your own hold that you admit are heavily based on other people's, I am surprised that you are this concerned.

All right, I suppose "copyright" was a bad choice of words. By the law you are allowed to "take" things from other people, but you have to give them full credit. If there is a lot more that is the same, it is outright copying and is illegal.

Now, here's a question for you: what are you going to do when 1.7 comes out? Are you just going to continue adding on levels using the new items? Or are you going to make a new hold then?

I am planning to stop at 25 then, when 1.7 comes out, I will continue adding. I already know how it's going to work.

...I just don't know what I'll do with my time while waiting

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

I think this has been missed above:

Scott (or anyone else), you said there is a way to skip a circuit in 12:1N. I can't run the demo, because I use the editor. So can someone please tell me?

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

yyw
Level: Roachling
Rank Points: 12
Registered: 11-22-2003
IP: Logged

In the room in where you move to the inner levels: (1N?)

Solve the outer third.
Use the mimic to open the INNER door.
Move the mimic out to the middle to open the outer door.

This could be solved by adding an opened trapdoor around the orb to open the outer door, which will be closed when the inner door is opened.

--yyw

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

OK, I fixed it. Thanks!

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

By the way, has *anyone* figured out what creature level 9 is in the shape of?

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

File: Deep Hold XVII to XX.hold (231.2 KB)
Downloaded 85 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Here's Deep Hold Seventeen (XVII) to Twenty (XX).

L17: What the Future Might Hold
L18: Slashfest
L19: The Factory
L20: The Factory II

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 01-03-2004 at 07:47 PM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
The level 1 entrance is completely surrounded by other rooms.

Dude, just make a new level, then move it to above the other ones. Go nuts being artistic. It's a pain in the ass to have to solve the same room over and over again, and you'll probably see insuurection if you don't make it fiendishly easy to get to the gooey centres of the hold.

As for what you can do with your time until then, perhaps you could go back and 'edit' Deep Hold. Look at each puzzle and each level and see what you could do better with your experience, and how best to shuffle it around so the difficulty ramps up appropriately, and how you could try and fit it into the DROD storyline. (Having some ideas is a Good Thing, because we're not ready to play all our cards just yet.)

Matt

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

How do I move a level above the other ones? As far as I know, it is impossible to reorder levels.

As for the second part of your post, as soon as I reach 25 that's what I'm planning to do.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Its true you can't reorder the levels I believe. But you can just make a new level with all the warps in one room. Then when that level is the active on in the editor click the first level button and then that becomes the level you start at.

DiMono
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1181
Registered: 09-13-2003
IP: Logged

Hawk, have you relented and made this edition of Deep Hold anyone edit? Because of how tedious (not difficult) the second level is, I've decided not to continue playing it until you do, as my time is better spent working on my own hold than trying to find the single path through the maze under the tar.

____________________________
Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

I am sure his response would be to use the warp room on the first level. That's partly what it is there for. But yes, not many people have seen the rooms beyond the tar maze, because it is so annoying. I think even Eytan cheated to see the trapdoors so that he could beat it and move on. I just said "forget this" and went on to something else, much like you.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

All right, I'll get an anyone edit version once I get to level 25 (since that's when I'm stopping for now). I might make another hold for 1.7 or keep going. Hmmm.....

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....