The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Why not Matt? Do I lose editing rights?

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 11-17-2003 at 12:06 AM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Redhawk - in case you missed my message above, could you please check if Level 8 2N is solvable?

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

AAAACK!!!!!

So much for my mathematical problem-solving skills.

I didn't actually test this one, I got it on paper, and so I didn't notice that I forgot to add a square of normal floor before the red door

But otherwise, it's all correct. Here's the correction.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2388
Registered: 05-29-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Why not Matt? Do I lose editing rights?

Well, it's more that it's good (and large) enough to stand on its own as a hold, rather than as part of the ACDOD. The ACDOD's strength I'd assume would be that it's got a lot of authors contributing about the same amount, so you'll see lots of different styles and difficulties.

Matt

____________________________
What do you call an elephant at the North Pole?

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Yeah, I basically agree - my interpretation of the ACDOD is that it's like a short story collection, with different people contributing a lot of smaller scale things; and your hold isn't a small scale hold - it's definitely big (and good) enough to stand on it's own.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

All right then, I guess I won't.....

But can I still have some ideas to make this better anyways?

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Deep Hold now includes Level 11: Through a Tight Squeeze and Level 12: The Fortress. Have fun!

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

All right, here's Deep Hold XIII - Remember Dugan's?. It's really repetitive, so I included a little passage direct to the exit in case anyone doesn't want to keep doing it.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Ok, I just started playing level 12 - I really like it so far, though I'm only in the 3rd room's outer area at the moment.

Level 13 - not even going to try. Bavato's level 5 still beats you in sheer tedium, IMO, but that's a matter of taste.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Have you looked at the L13 entrance room yet? Because.....



There are only nine rooms anyways.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Have you looked at the L13 entrance room yet? Because.....

Click here to view the secret text

× It's not what it seems

There are only nine rooms anyways.

Hmmm, guess I'll look again.



____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:

All right, here's Deep Hold XIII - Remember Dugan's?. It's really repetitive, so I included a little passage direct to the exit in case anyone doesn't want to keep doing it.

Yes. It does look repetitive. 26 roaches/30 moves does not sound promising for a second room. Is the whole "let's be repetitive" idea so interesting? I don't think so.

eytanz wrote:
Level 13 - not even going to try.

Don't worry. It's just the entrance.

Spoilery hint:

Bavato's level 5 still beats you in sheer tedium, IMO, but that's a matter of taste.

Tedium?

I'm...so...upset...

[Edited by agaricus5 on 11-29-2003 at 10:57 PM GMT]

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Well, it (Bavato 5) is a level that basically involves a lot of running around in circles, with no idea where to go beyond the current room, and no real idea how to get there either except by trial and error and a lot of repitition whenever you make a mistake. True, I only saw three rooms of it, but that describes my experience quite well (it's probably possible to map it on pen&paper - but that's a task I personally find even more tedious than running around blindly).

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

agaricus5 wrote:
Yes. It does look repetitive. 26 roaches/30 moves does not sound promising for a second room. Is the whole "let's be repetitive" idea so interesting? I don't think so.

It's not that type of repetitive. You'll see when you get back to 1N. Actually, the first time you enter 1N is, in my opinion, the hardest part of all. Most of the stuff is pretty easy. The repetition comes in later.

Most of the room exits are just fakes.

Anyways, in the next release, I changed this level's name to Beethro's Insanity. You'll see why later on. (Or maybe you're already there).

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 11-29-2003 at 11:39 PM GMT]

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 11-29-2003 at 11:41 PM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:

agaricus5 wrote:
Yes. It does look repetitive. 26 roaches/30 moves does not sound promising for a second room. Is the whole "let's be repetitive" idea so interesting? I don't think so.

It's not that type of repetitive. You'll see when you get back to 1N. Actually, the first time you enter 1N is, in my opinion, the hardest part of all. Most of the stuff is pretty easy. The repetition comes in later.

Most of the room exits are just fakes.

Click here to view the secret text

× Actually, all but one.

Anyways, in the next release, I changed this level's name to Beethro's Insanity. You'll see why later on. (Or maybe you're already there).

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 11-29-2003 at 11:39 PM GMT]

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 11-29-2003 at 11:41 PM GMT]

Yeah... I've seen it.
It's no fun at all. Really. Do you want to have to re-do a room 5 times, even though from a different point each time? I certianly don't. No offence to you or anything like that, but in fact, I'm already bored with it because I can see the solutions to each room, but I know that I'm at least ten thousand moves away from it, and will have to just re-do the rooms over again and again just to get there. There aren't even any checkpoints at all anywhere!

OK... I'll calm down now.

You can see that my own patience with it has run dry, and I have given up, even though I know what the solution is, or just about, and won't be playing level 13 any time soon.

To me, the level just shows a tad bit of laziness - it tries to extend 8 rooms of puzzle over 40, which, in my opinion, is not very enjoyable, and is just a large time-wasting sort of level. I think 5 iterations of 8 not very difficult puzzles is spreading it just a little too thinly.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

It's not supposed to be fun, or anything.....just repetitive. I don't think there's very many people here who liked The Maze. That's why I included the level skip.

And it's not actually lazy, either.....In the corners, the areas are of slightly different size and the puzzles are also slightly different.

It's supposed to be a "time-wasting sort of level."

What did you do in Bavato's, anyways? Is it worse than this?

By the way, I promise never to make a level the same way again. This thing was just for fun. The next level will be nothing like this. I've already got a pretty good idea for it.

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 11-30-2003 at 12:40 AM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:
It's supposed to be a "time-wasting sort of level."

I guessed it was so.

What did you do in Bavato's, anyways? Is it worse than this?

I've relocated the post to the "Bavato's Dungeon" thread.

____________________________
Resident Medic/Mycologist

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Actually, now that I saw 1N, and figured out how the level works, I agree that it's worse than Bavato's 5.

By the way, I'm not out to stir trouble here - just giving my opinions of these levels. I think that since you put in a very clearly labelled bypass, there's nothing wrong with the level.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

You know, I thought people might really not want to play Deep Hold after this - but I hope/guess I am/was mistaken. Maybe, along the lines of what agaricus5 said under Bavato's thread, it gives you an inner sense of completion once done. It didn't really for me, though.....hmmmmm.....

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Ok, I don't get level 11 3E (I'm playing through levels 11-12 simultaneously) -



____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

eytanz wrote:
Ok, I don't get level 11 3E (I'm playing through levels 11-12 simultaneously) -

Click here to view the secret text

×It's totally trivial. Just go right to the tar mother, kill it, and round up all the tar babies. No need to drop a single trapdoor. Are you sure a red door isn't missing somewhere?

Oops. You're supposed to have to drop all the trapdoors first. I'll fix that.

Oh, and I think you mean 2N4E? because 3E is the one with all the eyes.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

It's not supposed to be fun, or anything.....just repetitive.

This is a game. The whole point of a game is to have fun. If its not fun no-one will play it.

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

I completely agree, although with puzzle games especially sometimes you do get into that "I must beat it" mentaility where, as the name implies, even if you are no longer having fun you still force yourself to keep playing for whatever reason. Morbid curiosity at what's next, or perhaps the satisfaction of having beaten something that is totally boring. But if that's satisfying for someone, perhaps that person is really having fun.

As has been pointed out in other threads about mazes, there are people out there that enjoy puzzles like Dugan's 13. Whereas most of us here will almost definitely skip it on any subsequent playthroughs. Perhaps there's a masochist out there who will find this level that Red Hawk is making an entertaining one, simply because it is tedious.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk wrote:

Oh, and I think you mean 2N4E? because 3E is the one with all the eyes.

Yeah, I did. I have no idea why I got it wrong.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5454
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

The_Red_Hawk,

You've got some staircases that go to different holds. I'm guessing this is from using a version before the copying-rooms-with-stairs bug was fixed.

I only noticed this because I was using your hold to test uploading a hold into the room image database, and having multiple holds in the .hold file screwed up my parsing.

I've since fixed my bug, but you should probably go through all of your rooms with stairs and re-assign their destinations.
(Question to Mike - that will work, right? Or does he need to remove and re-add the stairs?)


____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

What holds do they go to??????????

And which floors are they??????????

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

OK, I went through it, and I found that the lvl 4 exit ended the hold and that lvl 13's went back to the level's start. That's fixed now. Were there any others?

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Schik
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5454
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

I only saw two weird ones, though I can't tell what levels they were for. Without a bit of cross-referencing, it's hard to tell what levels they were for. But if you found two odd ones, and so did I, I'd guess they were the right ones.

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Ok so I took a look at 13. Its even worse than it appears at first glance because you can only complete 1 room then you have to go through the whole thing again do 1 more room etc.

The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 783
Registered: 09-02-2003
IP: Logged

Hah, hah, hah!!!!!



(Well, maybe I shouldn't be saying that. That's the reason I made the rooms fairly easy.)

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 12-01-2003 at 04:30 PM GMT]

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....