Tablesaw
Level: Delver

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I spend so much time killing things with Beethro's sword, I thought it would be nice to have a change.

Rust roaches are smaller than their nonoxidizing kindred. They're incapable of hurting Beethro directly. In fact, Beethro exterminates them by stepping on them (moving his body tile to directly cover the roach). But rust roaches have a taste for metal. Instead of making a beeline for Beethro like regular roaches, rust roaches set their sights on Beethro's really big sword. If they reach it, they'll eat it away to nothing. With Beethro disarmed, the game is over. (Apparently, being weaponless is enough to drive him crazy and make him scream in deathly pain.)

This could also be a tar/mud-esque monster (the Bad Acid? the Corrosive Custard?) that Beethro would have to step on (with his alkali-soled boots, I guess) without letting his sword fall on anything dangerous.

I think it would provide interesting challenges, since it forces the player to think of monsters in a new way. These are monsters that the player has to stuggle to keep behind Beethro, instead of in front of him.

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MeckMeck GRE
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I think the rust roaches are best. Really cool idea Tablesaw, because its something really new. I could thing of some really dangerous puzzles (mix of roaches and rust roaches) Have a rank point. And what about a... (carefully looking for eytanz, ok air is clear) rust roach queen ?

Mattcrampy
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Well, a queen for a rust roach would be appropriate, because the rust roaches rely on strength of numbers.

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Tablesaw
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Well, a queen for a rust roach would be appropriate, because the rust roaches rely on strength of numbers.

Right. Of course, roach queens don't attack Beethro at all, but rust-roach queens would have to be able to eat Beethro's sword if it comes in contact with them. Roach queens simply act as obstacles to Beethro, but there's nothing that acts like an obstacle to a sword. To keep things simple, the sword would have to be eaten, rather than blocked.

Mattcrampy wrote:Oh, thank god that's over with.

What? The narratology vs. ludology debate?

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MasterGiga
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Cool idea. I can see Beethro being forced to turn his sword another direction to avoid having it eaten. How about the rust roaches going after Beethro's sword when Brains are present. Or will they go around Beethro and after only his sword in the first place?

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masonjason
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http://www.drod.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=2111



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Doom
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masonjason wrote:
http://www.drod.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=2111

I don't believe it. Anti roach queens were suggested in the first reply

Tablesaw
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masonjason wrote:
http://www.drod.net/forum/viewtopic.php?TopicID=2111

Drat! I scanned through the entire board since I was wondering if this had been suggested before. I must have missed that post.

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Mattcrampy
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Aah, my post got lost.

Anyway, I was going to say that I can see some difficulties with the monster, some of which were raised in the previous thread - it's counter-intuitive to have hitting a monster with your sword to be deadly rather than good. I suggested that you use your sword, and rely on the 'Beethro first, then monsters' rule, but there couldn't be a rust roach next to Beethro's sword. So you'd have to split the rust roaches up or else they'd kill you.

You do lose the roach/rust roach puzzles, but they become much more unique as a consequence rather than simply being a kind of roach you kill in a different way - they'd be like a more flexible, more dangerous wubba.

What? The narratology vs. ludology debate?

Well, it was meant to be ambiguous, but it pretty much refers to the '1337' joke, which dragged on longer than necessary.

As always, my participation in Feature Requests doesn't imply official approval, disapproval, interest or otherwise.

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Banjooie
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I don't know. It'd be kind of awesome to be fighting rust roaches on one side of you, and normal roaches on the other.

Mattcrampy
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It would be, but otherwise rust roaches are pretty similar to regular roaches with the disadvantage that they're inconsistant with the rest of the DROD game. Therein lies the problem.

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Tablesaw
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Mattcrampy wrote:
Anyway, I was going to say that I can see some difficulties with the monster, some of which were raised in the previous thread - it's counter-intuitive to have hitting a monster with your sword to be deadly rather than good.

Perhaps, but is it detrimentally counter-intuitive? I don't think there's anything wrong with asking players to reevaluate the way the DROD mechanics work, as long as the process is simple. Red snakes can't be killed with swords either, which changed the gameplay drastically when they were introduced, but they became incorporated. And the movements of wraithwrings are still beyond my comprehension, and appear to be much more obscure than those of proposed rust roaches.

Mattcrampy wrote:
You do lose the roach/rust roach puzzles, but they become much more unique as a consequence rather than simply being a kind of roach you kill in a different way - they'd be like a more flexible, more dangerous wubba.

That's an interesting comparison. How would things be different if it used the wubba's movement rules?

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Banjooie
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And the movements of wraithwrings are still beyond my comprehension

Wraithwings made easy.

Will Kill You When:


Will Not Kill You When:

Mattcrampy
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Wraithwings only kill you if they surround you. If there's another wraithwing at least 90 degrees away that can attack you, they'll attack, otherwise they'll run. I think wraithwings are due for a hold, myself.

Perhaps, but is it detrimentally counter-intuitive? I don't think there's anything wrong with asking players to reevaluate the way the DROD mechanics work, as long as the process is simple. Red snakes can't be killed with swords either, which changed the gameplay drastically when they were introduced, but they became incorporated. And the movements of wraithwrings are still beyond my comprehension, and appear to be much more obscure than those of proposed rust roaches.

The thing I'm concerned about is that not so much that it's a change to the mechanics, but that's it's a violation of the mechanics. There's a certain value in having a 'when all else fails, do x' in a game - it makes the game far less frustrating and provides a basis for players to discover more estoric rules. DROD's is 'if all else fails, hit with sword' - you'll notice that almost every element in DROD doesn't actually hurt you if you hit it - not even snakes. Bombs do, but the whole point of bombs is that you leave them alone, or else use a fuse, so it's still reasonably intuitive.

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Banjooie
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--and how long would it take to figure out that 'Brown Roaches must be stepped on'?

Mattcrampy
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Yeah, exactly. You collide with everything else, and so you'd have to express the rust roaches' differences in a core hold like City Beneath, and you'd have to find some way for that to be the only solution without it looking like you've screwed up.

Once again, I emphasise that I have no influence over what's implemented.

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Banjooie
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Aw, heck, that wouldn't be hard. Just make a room where Beethro has to enter backwards, and can't turn his sword until he's run over a roach. Or, heck, just have someone say 'Don't try to cut those roaches'.

Mechadragon
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Rust golems might be interesting. When they died you'd be standing on the rock (er, rust) pile so could move off in any direction.

zex20913
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We might have to call them "Iron Giants"

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