Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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Damn! I just got a nagging suspicion about the room confirmed. There appear to be several really trivial solutions. The easyest one let´s me have 53 moves to spare before the bombs goes of! What I´ve found is safe places among all the trapdoors and bombs. Please do take a look at it. I´m sure it would be easy to prevent these kinds of (I suppose) unintended solutions.

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
IP: Logged

Thanks. Wow, I had to take a printscreen of the game just as the bombs went off to see it. It certainly looked like the whole area was covered for the split second the bombs go off but there are 5 safe squares. I think the easiest thing to do is make all 5 of them open pits to start with. None of them factor in on my basic solution, which has me stepping on the arrow at move 58 of the 60 move long fuse.



I also moved the force arrow to prevent the player from exiting the area without killing all seeps and then kill the remainder safely from that corner. (I was able to leave with 4 seeps alive once) And I added a checkpoint to mark the first safe square for the player.

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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Man! Pure genious! I love this room now. You really have to think. Finally I had to carefully plan my moves. I hope others like it as well. Good work!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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In 1E, if you leave the room and come back in (for example, to get a more optimal sword orientation), then the script where the gatekeeper sees you never plays. I think that moving the "End on room exit" to the end of the script would fix this, since it would never get there if Beethro never steps on the square that the Wait condition is set for.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
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Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. The only thing is if that command is put at the end and someone solves the room as intended, then backtracks looking for secrets or such they will trigger the script in a clean room where it'll be out of context. This happens because the 'wait for player at' condition was never met the first time in the room.

I think I'll need to come up with a more complex script to allow for both possibilities.

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
IP: Logged

It shouldn't be too hard with creative use of the If scripts and a Wait for Room Clear command.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

cbemom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 36
Registered: 10-11-2004
IP: Logged

some comments on the changes -

3E is a little more challenging - it took me three times to figure out what I needed.

1S4E - has more visual interest - again requiring more thinking.

I like 1N4E - Nice brain break after the last two rooms

1N1E went from med. difficult to almost impossible for me - the closest I've come is still 4 moves short

oh, and I've never seen the gatekeeper words in 1E

edit: finally finished 1N1E - no moves to spare!
[Edited by cbemom at Local Time:05-31-2005 at 05:56 PM]

[Edited by cbemom at Local Time:05-31-2005 at 07:20 PM]

____________________________
Turning dreams into plans
www.dreamrenovation.com

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
IP: Logged

I've just attached a new version of the hold. This only has script fixes and additions. 1E should now show the script if and only if you step on the wrong square while the room's being solved, even if you've exited and reentered before hand.

Also I added scripts to the entrance, a brief introduction to your goal- clear the level of seeps, duh- and a brief setup of the next room. Also on solving the room you should get a different message depending on how you "solve" the entrance. Please, let me know if there's any problems with how I set that up. Also in 1N I added a script to let players know they could go to the entrance directly before solving 1N.

cbemom wrote:
edit: finally finished 1N1E - no moves to spare!

Good job, I was about to post a few tips, but it looks like I don't have to. Now can you solve it with more than 6 moves to spare?

[Edited by Tscott at Local Time:06-01-2005 at 06:35 PM]

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Ohh... It was not so easy to solve 3E by killing the seeps first anymore. I suppose it´s intentional that you´re able to do it with exactly zero moves to spare? (Or is it possible to do it even better?) Nice challange.

cbemom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 36
Registered: 10-11-2004
IP: Logged

finished the latest version - I like it!

I would give it a 4 for difficulty and an 8 for rating.

The only negatives are that the hold is so small, and your storyline has no closure. Maybe change the ending screen to something that tells us what happened.

the wounded whispering walls wailed and waned

____________________________
Turning dreams into plans
www.dreamrenovation.com

Hatlore
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 42
Registered: 10-13-2004
IP: Logged

It's good, challenging. I didn't manage to figure out the secret room myself. Maybe a little on the short side, but that can be a good thing. Good job.

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
IP: Logged

cbemom wrote:
The only negatives are that the hold is so small, and your storyline has no closure. Maybe change the ending screen to something that tells us what happened.

Hatlore wrote:
Maybe a little on the short side, but that can be a good thing. Good job.

I'm hearing this, and toying with the idea of adding a second level to maybe find the source of the infestation. It'll give it a little more length and some closure. Thanks for everyone's comments and for bearing with me.

[Edited by Tscott at Local Time:06-04-2005 at 01:53 AM]

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
IP: Logged

I just uploaded a new version of the hold with a new action packed ending added. A very small but challenging second level now gives the hold a bit more of a conclusion (and a little more length).

I think anyone who's played through level one before can just import this new version over the old and restore to the checkpoint in 'The Entrance' before you took the end level stairs to get to the second level without replaying the whole thing. If this isn't the case, let me know and I'll upload a copy with just the second level.

As always, all comments are welcome. I am curious on people's perceptions of the difficulty of these new rooms are, any comments on checkpoints (more, less, placed elsewhere?) and of course any embarrassing typos that may have gotten past me.

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1373
Registered: 02-05-2003
IP: Logged

Thats definitely a nicer way to finish. The first room was very nice - took me a number of goes to get to the bottom fast enough, and after that it got easier.
1W was of course more of an eye puzzle than a seep one (not saying thats bad ) - but it was quite nice. Finally, 2W took a little time but I didn't find it particularly hard as there wasn't much room to go wrong that an undo couldn't fix, but the layout was nice. 3W was easy, but I suppose it was mainly there for the scripting.

Checkpoints - exactly where I wanted them.

Overall - I don't see anything that needs to be changed. Nice couple of rooms.

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
IP: Logged

Yeah, 1W is kind of a slight break in between what I see as the two tough rooms.

2W I find interesting as you need to fight both in the walls and on the floors at the same time- one version of it allowed for the player to become trapped if they weren't too careful- if you got stuck in with the queens on the left outer side (next to the green doors) there were 15 roaches spawned and you're only able to kill at most 1 per two turns trying to get out of the area. I changed it now so now only 14 spawn at that point so it's manageable (but still tough) but careful swordsmanship can fight you out of any situation of that room. But I still find it a tough room, and think many will be challenged.

3W is just a trifle next the challenge of 2W (2W was made to be the 'climax') and just there to give the impression that after that room all that was needed here is a light mopping up of the rest to finish.

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Clever, clever, clever. The first room of the second level was really good (I would give it a 7.5 for funrating), and the second room was also good (maybe a funrating of 6). The third room was clever, but a little too much hack and slash for my taste (it also gets a 6). And the last room, well... not much to say about that, exept that I felt really bad about killing the poor seeps. They seemed so frightened. If there where any secrets I must have missed them.

Tscott
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 382
Registered: 02-10-2003
IP: Logged

So how were the fuses (lengthwise) in the entrance to lvl 2? I had toyed around with fighting methods in that formation for a while before I placed the bombs so I think I was very efficient and then added about 8 or 10 moves leeway to my average move count to be a little forgiving. Do you think they should they be tightened, lengthened or kept how they are?

Other than that burning question, I'm fairly happy with how this turned out and think I'm ready to move this to the holds board. Thanks all.

____________________________
And I can recall our caravel: a little wicker beetle shell with four fine maste and lateen sails,
its bearings on Cair Paravel. O my love, O it was a funny little thing to be the ones to've seen.
-Joanna Newsom "Bridges and Balloons"

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
IP: Logged

Well, I think that the only challanging part of the room was to reach the first checkpoint. It´s not really a bad thing, but it makes the rest of the room pretty pointless (from a difficulty viewpoint, that is). If you have quite a number of sparemoves from the first rush the rest of the room might become a little too easy. I think you might shorten the first part of the fuse by some moves (3?). You could at least try it out, and see what people think.