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File: Rassa palace.hold (13 KB)
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Ok. Here´s a little something I´ve made. The first level is very easy (except maby for the entrance). And it just contains five rooms. The second level should contain some challanging rooms. Please play at least some rooms of the second level before you rate the hold (if you want to rate it).

Hope you enjoy this hold: David.

Blondbeard
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AHHH! A funrating of 3! That is very bad. I mean 3 means that someone thinks that he has spent his time on something really boring. It would be good to know what it is that is so terryfyingly boring

It would be nice of you to tell me why you gave the hold a funrating of 3. I am sory if I have wasted your time.

David

MeckMeck GRE
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Blondbeard wrote:
AHHH! A funrating of 3! That is very bad. I mean 3 means that someone thinks that he has spent his time on something really boring. It would be good to know what it is that is so terryfyingly boring

It would be nice of you to tell me why you gave the hold a funrating of 3. I am sory if I have wasted your time.

David

Never mind. Your hold is not that bad. The 3 may happen when only one rate it. Not everybody likes a hold as well as others. Now you have 3 voters and a cut of 4,7. This is OK for the first hold.

agaricus5
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I haven't quite completed this hold, but I quite like some of the puzzles in here. Some are relatively challenging and interesting, although a little lacking on the aesthetic side in places. Still, from what I've seen, it's certainly worth a play. One thing I rather dislike, however, is the second level's tendency to determine the order in which you have to complete the rooms. I also didn't like the multi-room puzzle in 1N 2E, 1N 3E and 3E, although that's just personal opinion; I don't like puzzles much with complex solutions spanning over areas you can't see.

Still, it's definitely an interesting hold, worth playing at some point.

Oh, and there is a minor bug: If you enter 1N 1E from the south, before the room is cleared, you cannot return the main area of 1E because of the red door.

[Edited by agaricus5 at Local Time:05-15-2005 at 06:47 PM]

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Blondbeard
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I´m glad that someone found it worth playing . The bug you mentiond doesn´t exist. It is possible to go to 1E from 1E1N so that you enter on the east corner of the red door. Then you leave it by stepping southeast.

The point of the multiroom puzzle is that you should scout ahed from their common corner. Then you DO have all the information and can choose witch part to tackle first. That decission should be quite easy. I´m sory you didn´t like it. it was suposed to be somewhat amusing.

I think you are right when you say that it´s moore fun to chose the order in witch to complete the rooms. I will think of that if I make another hold.

What I would like to know is why I have gotten raitings of three and four. I mean... five is neutral, right? So those raitings must mean that at least two found the hold a waist of time. Like a very minor torture . I would like to know why. I understand if you don´t answer, but I will be gratefull if you do.

MeckMeck GRE
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Blondbeard wrote:
What I would like to know is why I have gotten raitings of three and four. I mean... five is neutral, right? So those raitings must mean that at least two found the hold a waist of time. Like a very minor torture . I would like to know why. I understand if you don´t answer, but I will be gratefull if you do.

A rate of 3 or 4 dosent mean its a waste of time. I dont know if there is a special definition (but I think its like : 1-Torture 2-Crab 3-Little Poor 4-Average 5-OK 6-Nice 7-Good 8-Very Good 9-Excellent 10-Perfect). However to gain votes higher then 5 you should look at such holds and take an example of them (But please dont copy em exactly). THe best of course is Bravatos Dungeon but makeing a hold like that is maybe too hard for anybody here expect about 5 members. Look around how holds => 6.0 look like.

Also remember Rassa Palace is your first hold. A 4.8 is quite good for that, even if some people think the hold is just a 3 or 4. Your hold (and every hold) is not anybodys taste.

Doom
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MeckMeck GRE wrote:
The best of course is Bavatos Dungeon but making a hold like that is maybe too hard for anybody here expect about 5 members. Look around how holds => 6.0 look like.

Maybe it's just me but I don't really like it that everyone is comparing anything with Bavato's Dungeon.

I suggest looking here for some tips about making good holds.

5) Aim for fun, not difficulty.
Remember that people will play your hold because they think they'll enjoy it, not out of some unspoken duty. If your hold is unreasonably hard without being fun to figure out, people will stop playing it.

That's why I think that Bavato's Dungeon might not be a good example for beginner architects unless they really know what they are doing.

agaricus5
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Doom wrote:

MeckMeck GRE wrote:
The best of course is Bavatos Dungeon but making a hold like that is maybe too hard for anybody here expect about 5 members. Look around how holds => 6.0 look like.

Maybe it's just me but I don't really like it that everyone is comparing anything with Bavato's Dungeon.

I agree. All holds are different, and each hold is more or less unique, with its own style of layout and puzzles. Comparing holds so generically doesn't say much about the hold itself

I suggest looking here for some tips about making good holds.

5) Aim for fun, not difficulty.
Remember that people will play your hold because they think they'll enjoy it, not out of some unspoken duty. If your hold is unreasonably hard without being fun to figure out, people will stop playing it.

That's why I think that Bavato's Dungeon might not be a good example for beginner architects unless they really know what they are doing.

Also, I think the definition of "unreasonably hard without being fun to figure out" is different for different people. I made a hold that contains lots of difficult puzzles with emphasis on manipulation of monsters in large areas, efficiency, timing and large hordes, which some people find fun, but which I guess others find tedious. At another end of the genre spectrum are holds like "A Quiet Place", which places emphasis on manipulation of small groups of monsters in small areas and puzzles with specific solutions. Again, some people enjoy working out what specific solutions are, although I don't myself.

What I don't think is fair about the scale is that it itself is too generic. I think when most people use it, they rate holds relative to whatever else they have played, without taking into account what the holds are. I'm guessing that larger holds with more puzzles might, on average, be more "fun" than smaller 30 minute diversions, simply because they're larger, and so smaller holds don't get represented as well as larger ones.

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eytanz
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Note - I'm continuing this discussion in a seperate thread in the architecture forum, to avoid crowding Rassa Palace's thread with off-topic posts.

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Blondbeard
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Concerning 2E1S in level of fear:

I have just watched the demos for this room. And to my knowledge the three persons that has solved it do not find the (in my opinion) elegant and rather easy solution I intended. Stefans solution is elegant, but it does not feel very easy. I supose I should have made a scroll with a clue for this room, since people do not seem to stumble over the intended solution.

If you feel that this particular room seems too messy to be fun I will give you some hints.

Hint 1:

Hint 2:

Hint 3:

Hint 4 (where I tell you what to do):

Blondbeard
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File: Rassa palace.hold (13 KB)
Downloaded 114 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Ok. Now I have upgraded the hold some. Mainly I have made it easyer to choose in witch order to complete rooms, But I have also added a couple of checkpoints, some cluescrolls and some scrolls containing Beethros general reflections on the diferent rooms.

I hope you like the changes.

larrymurk
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Great hold. Almost every room was fun and I spent a lot of time playing with some of them.

A couple little problems:
1. I think the layout is not the greatest. If you enter Level of fear:2N:1E before completing 1N:1E you will have to restore for example.
2. Level of fear:2S:2E, why? Without transparent tar and undo this room must've been really annoying. With them, this is a little waste of time.

But, I still say great hold!

Blondbeard
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And updated! I made the tar room unrequired, added some scrolls and fixed a trivial solution. The point of the tar room was that it should be fun to try and do as the hints said, but I guess it wasn't...