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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Osprey (Looking for a bird)
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Xindaris
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File: Osprey.hold (57 KB)
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icon Osprey (+1)  
So...

I started making a hold while watching Nature on PBS, specifically an episode about Ospreys, hence the name. I eventually worked my way around to the name making some semblance of sense, though.

This is a one-level hold, ~11 rooms, with a mild theming of seeding beacons and closing doors in the player's face. Lots of narrow corridors and a very low population of monsters. No scripting*, until/unless I add any challenges.

Hoping for a little testing to see if these puzzles are as clever as I'd hoped, or if they are, in fact, broken. I think checkpoints should be ok, but let me know of any issues.

Thanks!

*--EDIT: I forgot, there are a few build marker commands in one room!

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 01-18-2025 05:15 PM]
05-14-2024 at 04:18 AM
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azb
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
It's a clever hold overall, and the puzzles certainly don't mess around,

But 1N, a room without any seeding beacons in it, seems just plain old impossible to solve regardless of what pressure plate you step on first, as the hordes will swarm you regardless of what direction you start in and which plate you step on first.

What is the intended solution?
05-14-2024 at 12:09 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Osprey (0)  
Thanks for taking a look azb. I'd appreciate seeing some demos from the rooms you have solved. For 1N, here's an attempt at some progressive hints:

Click here to view the secret text


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05-14-2024 at 03:51 PM
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azb
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icon Re: Osprey (-1)  
Having the solution be a "look and guess the hidden object" is usually not a well recieved puzzle mechanic in the DROD community, because the puzzles are supposed to be about how cleverly you can solve them by deduction and not about how much you can stare at the screen and blindly guess where a hidden object is, but I suppose it's not that bad an offender because it's very quick after you discover the hidden object.
05-14-2024 at 05:47 PM
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Xindaris
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I'd argue that there are no hidden objects here.
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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-14-2024 05:59 PM]
05-14-2024 at 05:57 PM
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Red-XIII
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File: Osprey_demos.demo (5.4 KB)
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
First of all, I did not know about the osprey, it's a beautiful bird!
Second, I really expected a fegundo themed hold based on the title :P

Anyways, these are terrific puzzles, I loved all of them except for two rooms. Perfect difficulty for me, and amazing gameplay. I think I found some US, so here's some comments and demos.

Click here to view the secret text


PS: it's hard to keep up testing your hold, you are a building machine! Together with Blockerture Science Laboratories, these are my favourite puzzles of yours.

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There's just this one, just this rock.
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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 05-14-2024 10:21 PM]
05-14-2024 at 09:33 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Osprey (0)  
Sorry--I'm trying to get old things published, but once I was happy with this I thought it best to go ahead and put it out there.

Anyway, thanks for taking a look! Here are a few responses:

Click here to view the secret text


UPDATE: Various leak fix attempts!

EDIT/UPDATE AGAIN: Further tweak to 1S which I'm pretty sure fully patches its leaks.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-16-2024 03:53 PM]
05-15-2024 at 03:33 AM
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Red-XIII
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File: Osprey demos.demo (2.9 KB)
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
1S: is this intended?

1S1E: I like this room. But I did not understand your reply, what is the intended solution here? Is it the one I did now?

1W and 1S2E: I managed to make progress thanks to your hints, but I still cannot solve these rooms.

1N2W: the first passage solution seems the same as my previous one. Is this intended?
For the second solution, well, I forgot about your hint after I read it, but luckily I knew about this trick, otherwise it would have been a really tough room (it still is!). Also, I learned (or re-learned, don't recall if TSS has this interaction) that taking a potion while in a time token, it cancels the time token itself. I smell puzzle potential.

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05-17-2024 at 10:23 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Osprey (0)  
All the new demos look intended now, hooray!

Further responses:
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-18-2024 04:18 PM]
05-18-2024 at 04:18 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: Osprey demos.demo (29.1 KB)
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
Decided to test this, here's demos from my first session.

Comments on rooms I tried:

Click here to view the secret text


Promising so far, but I'll need to give some of these rooms my full attention and I wasn't able to just yet.
01-02-2025 at 07:53 PM
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Xindaris
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Hey, thanks for taking a look! No demos so far look unintended, at least.

A few responses...
1N1W is really not too difficult; I think I found that setup harder than others do. I also didn't take advantage at all of the ability to drop gel/tar babies in the water.
1W is probably the hardest room in the level. It requires a lot of twisting things around, so that it's definitely more than "just" a trapdoor puzzle.
1S1E: I could probably make the 3 tiles that include the tar-gel potion to be all open black doors instead of two of them being bridge; you think that'd be visible enough? And if you want a hint for this room:
Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by Xindaris at 01-03-2025 04:43 PM]
01-03-2025 at 04:40 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: Osprey demos.demo (30.7 KB)
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
Made a bit more progress.

Click here to view the secret text

01-03-2025 at 07:55 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: Osprey.demo (31.2 KB)
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
Okay, just down to 1W now. Still having some trouble wrapping my head around it.

Comments on the two rooms I solved:
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01-04-2025 at 08:18 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: Osprey Corridors Over Mud 1W Victory.demo (27.8 KB)
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
Got 1W.

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Now that I've beaten the whole level, here's a summary of my thoughts on what could benefit from changes:

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01-05-2025 at 10:58 PM
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Xindaris
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Thanks again for going through things. I've had a very busy week and am only just getting back to replying to things.

The good news is that I only saw one thing I didn't like in your demos, just in 1E, and it turned out to be a pretty easy leak to plug. Other than that, I'll try and reply about each room more specifically:

Click here to view the secret text


Update:
-Leak fix in 1E
-Hopeful clarity addition to 1S1E.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 01-10-2025 10:52 PM]
01-10-2025 at 10:50 PM
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Dragon Fogel
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File: Osprey Corridors Over Mud 1E Victory.demo (27.7 KB)
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
Ran through fixed 1E and noticed some checkpointing issues.

-No checkpoint under the time token. This makes it harder to find the start of recording.
-Checkpoint under the decoy potion, instead of next to it. This makes it harder to experiment with the timing.

The room seems fine now, although I was able to get the engineer in a loop (I must have messed up somewhere, as it broke eventually, but I was far enough along that it didn't matter) and never needed the west path for the timeclone. If that's either intended or not a problem, then there's no issue.

[Last edited by Dragon Fogel at 01-11-2025 10:54 PM]
01-11-2025 at 10:53 PM
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Xindaris
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Alright, that demo looks like the kind of solution I'm after. A movement loop is the general idea I wanted; it's okay if it doesn't have to be "perfect" (although my personal solution would hold the engineer indefinitely). And...

Update:
-Checkpoints moved in 1E. I didn't put one on the time token to avoid complaints of it not being visible, but there's one on the pressure plate just east of it which is just two turns away from activating the token in any sensible solution. And, the one under the decoy potion was moved a tile west.
-Challenge scripting added to 1S2E, along with slightly clearer wording and a convenient seeding beacon the player can use to reset the room if they want to attempt the challenge post-clear. I think I'm okay with leaving this room as-is, even if it's not amazing; it still does what I wanted to, more or less.


At this point I'm thinking of putting this up to HA, unless anything else comes up in the next few days.

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01-14-2025 at 01:23 AM
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Dragon Fogel
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
The reason for putting checkpoints on time tokens is that it makes it vastly more convenient to go back to the recording, especially if you need to edit near the end. Plus it's so common that it actively throws me off (and probably other people) when it doesn't happen.

I don't mind there being another checkpoint nearby for visibility, but I really did find it weird when doing that last run and I accidentally reset further back than I wanted to because of it.
01-14-2025 at 02:12 AM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
Well, I won't argue with that. Updated with a checkpoint on the time token itself.

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01-18-2025 at 05:16 PM
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Xindaris
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Okay, my "a few days" threshold has passed; should have a while ago X_x .

I'm putting this up for HA judgement now.

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[Last edited by Xindaris at 02-07-2025 09:24 PM]
02-07-2025 at 09:24 PM
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Rabscuttle
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icon Re: Osprey (+1)  
Made a suggestion in the HA chat, you might have missed it. Just need to know if you want to ignore or make a change.

03-01-2025 at 11:16 PM
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Xindaris
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icon Re: Osprey (0)  
Thanks for the reminder; I got busy IRL and forgot to keep checking this.

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03-02-2025 at 04:37 AM
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