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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Okay, most of the things like rooms being easier than others in certain levels I fixed by simply removing the green doors, because the blue door ensures the rooms have to be cleared just not in a particular order,

Or Demolition 1S having an unintended solution,

but some of the things, like about level 44, 45, and 47 I kept intentionally as is, as level 44 is just a proof of concept, and levels 45 and 47 are meant to be still easy as they are about as easy as section 5's easy puzzles were with only a little bit more difficulty, and likewise Demolition/level 50 Entrance and 1W are intentionally easy for the same reason.

06-06-2024 at 10:09 PM

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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Because I posted section 7, I feel I should recap what sections 8 thru 25 should be about because those are going to come immediately after:

Section 8 will be an introduction to tar, but no mothers will be used, unlike KDD level 8, just to keep the puzzles in a more neater logical progression (level 11 didn't use tar mothers either in the original KDD, even though level 8 did for whatever weird reason)

Section 9 will be like KDD level 9, so no serpents, wraithwings, tar etc, but there will be invisibility potions introduced because of the theme of manipulating roaches

Section 10 will be like KDD level 10, so no tar, but there will be wraithwings and serpents used, as well as spiders for that one section

Section 11 will be like KDD level 11, but there will be no tedious important things hidden under tar because that is frowned upon, instead it will be basically like a harder section 8 with invisibility potions and red gates which didn't get used in KDD level 8, but did in level 11

Section 12 will be like KDD level 12, so harder serpent puzzles than section 7

Section 13 will be like a harder section 6 with the elements and cocenpts from sections 7 thru 12 in it, but there will be some straight KDD level 13 style mazes like level 104

Section 14 will be like KDD level 14, an intro to goblins, but no tar unlike the original KDD level 14 to focus on the goblins

Section 15 will be like KDD level 15, so monster free puzzles with an emphasis on trapdoor dropping

Section 16 will be like KDD level 16, so using tar mothers in a strategic way

Section 17 will be like KDD level 17, so intense tar mother hordes

Section 18 will be like KDD level 18, so no tar, but there will be plenty of hard goblin rooms in combination with all the other monsters except for brains

Section 19 will be like KDD level 19, so lots of tricky manipulation puzzles, but no tar or goblins

Section 20 will be like KDD level 20, so an introduction to brains and how they influence all the other monsters

Section 21 will be like KDD level 21, so really hard brained roach queen hordes, but no serpents or tar. There were a couple of goblins in the original KDD level 21, but I omitted them here to focus on the main theme of brained roach queen chaos.

Section 22 will be like KDD level 22, so no brained monsters and the puzzles will focus on tight mimic juggling rather than monster combat

Section 23 will be like KDD level 23, so no brained monsters either, but the focus will be on manipulating goblins to kill serpents

Section 24 will be like KDD level 24, so it's a grand city of everything with the hardest puzzles yet, including the re-introduction of brains

Section 25 will be like KDD level 25, so it's a boss fight against the 'Neather who you can't actually kill until the very last room of the hold

06-07-2024 at 11:01 AM

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Nuntar
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

I should clarify, there is nothing wrong as such with levels being easy. It's just that when a level feels like an easier version of an earlier level (as for example, Sock It To Ya 1W and 1N are easier versions of Icy Danger), then it feels like a bit of a chore to get through it. Also, short easy rooms like Demolition 1W are much more forgivable than long ones like Demolition Entrance.

I hate to say this, but I wonder if at this point you should rethink the project a bit. It is already starting to feel in places that you were determined to have a certain number of levels, but you don't have enough ideas to sustain that number. And this is one quarter of the way into the first of five holds.

* * *

Cold War 1N: The passage you added to the secret variant unfortunately trivialises the room. I suggest moving the secret room to 1N1W, accessed from 1W, so that the additional passage can be removed.

* * *

Serpent Room Brawl (Level 51): Nice simple introduction to serpents. Entrance might be a bit scary to a new player who hasn't seen serpents before, but you are almost forced to move down to the bottom and then you will see one go into a dead end.

Movin' On (L52): Nice introduction to the serpent-as-timer concept. Entrance might have a bit too much leeway; you can kill all the roaches on the east side of the room and still have time to make it over. 1W requires some good strategising to get to the trapped roach in time; cleanup was a bit tedious but that can't be helped. I didn't like 1N though -- feels like an easier version of 1W, and nothing would be lost by taking it out.

Traffic Signs (L53): Strange room. At first I thought it would be about making choices of which orb to go for to ensure you could be in the right place at the right time to direct the serpent... but no, the solution is just to run around once, hitting all the orbs, and then the serpent will go on its forced path. This could definitely become an interesting puzzle if you worked on it more.

Garden of Pain (L54): Entrance is okay, a bit chaotic, but easy enough to avoid the serpents, and they will tend to go north into the dead ends. (Might be annoying if you don't know the rule about standing behind them.)

1N is a good room of the "trapped serpent gradually releasing monsters" type. It's compact, requires some tactical thinking, and is soon over once you have a good approach. (The checkpoint should be a few tiles higher, though.) 1E on the other hand is pretty tedious; you just have to wait at the opening and swing back and forth, moving back a bit each time a bend disappears, and then the clean-up after the snake dies is the same as every other "queens in wide open space" room.

1W is very silly and quite hard, but after a while I got off to a good enough start that finishing was fairly easy.

Zap! (L55): Interesting puzzles, even if not the prettiest-looking rooms. 1W is broken because you can hit orbs while solving the room, exit east, and then traverse the cleared room. I did also check that the room is solvable without exiting east, and the solution I found involved waiting in the entrance passage until the roach killed the NE snake, then fetching the second roach for the other snakes. Sneaky bit of misdirection if that's intended.

Boost Away (L56): I'm not sure, are you actually building this in AE? If you are, I should point out that this room style maps to Beach in 5.0, which is not great for force arrow visibility.

Entrance is very easily solved by standing on the arrow near the SE corner -- which could be tricky for new players as they won't know that standing on arrows is safe. 1E is easily solved by holding an eye at (21,22). 1W is more chaotic and I didn't find a simple solution; it will be interesting to see what optimisers make of it.

In the Army Now (L57): Entrance is very chaotic and trial-and-error. Didn't take too long, but definitely not my favourite room. 1W and 1S are much easier, especially as the serpents can be directed to the room entrances.

Marathon (L58): Entrance is very easy to reach the queen in time. New players may struggle with killing the serpents afterwards if they don't know how to send them north. 1W and 1E are quite a bit harder as there is only just enough time; still, I enjoyed both rooms and in this case I think that solving them felt different enough to justify having both.

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06-18-2024 at 09:03 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

That makes sense. I will revisit sections 6 and 7 to be more appropriate and have less trivial puzzles.

06-19-2024 at 11:09 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Okay, I completed the revisions as well as levels 59 thru 66, or section 8.

Levels 61 and 66 have rooms with trivial solutions, but the intended idea is to use the tar babies to get stuck on the arrows, so the monsters you are manipulating don't get stuck.

When I post the levels, do you guys know how to incorporate the idea I want more correctly?

06-19-2024 at 07:50 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Okay, I figured out the solution, but the catch is with AE elements it's basically the same exact room, just with a different target monster (roach vs wraithwing), because if you don't trap every single last tar baby, then you could use one instead of the intended monster to kill the serpent.

06-19-2024 at 08:27 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Hi,

I can't seem to figure out correctly how to do a pinball game using KDD level 11 elements, and likewise I can't seem to figure out how to do a maze at angle using KDD level 10 elements.

I can figure out that for pinball, you are constantly going down, but can't figure out how to simulate bumpers, flippers etc, and likewise for the maze at an angle I can figure out how to do a maze, but not tilt it at an angle and still be mazey.

Any ideas for those?

Again, they won't come up until sections 8 and 9 are fully tested and commented on, but they are coming soon.

06-20-2024 at 12:41 AM

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kieranmillar
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

For a maze at an angle, I'd recommend drawing a maze in a paint program with 2 pixel thick walls, then rotate it without any antialiasing (any feature-rich paint program should let you do this). Then you'll need to manually copy that into DROD, each pixel being a wall.

The pinball idea seems nonsensical to me, I'd recomend coming up with a different level idea for the 211th time and replace it.

06-20-2024 at 05:59 AM

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Nuntar
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File: pinball sample.hold (1 KB)
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Not really sure what you mean by "pinball" or what aspects you are trying to recreate, but here's a sample hold to show one idea.

At the start, you can move sideways or down, but not up. When you hit the "flipper" orb you can only move up until you reach the top and hit the reset orb.

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06-20-2024 at 06:21 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Awesome! Thank you so much!

Pseudo pinball, like you are posting, is good for me too, because I know recreating it exactly is probably not gonna work for DROD, as it doesn't support real time movement.

06-20-2024 at 10:55 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Hi everyone,

Because I don't have internet access on my computer, only my smartphone for now, I unfortunately cannot post the revised sections 6 and 7, nor can I post section 8, but I am working on fixing that now.

I also have all the way up to the end of section 22 drafted, which is just like KDD level 22 with the focus being on mimic juggling.

Section 23 will have wraithwing as well as goblin manipulation, but still no brains, and section 24 will be the hardest and the widest variety of puzzles, and finally section 25 will be a classic Neather boss fight, with easy rooms and hard rooms right next to each other.

06-20-2024 at 01:40 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Okay, now I have succesfully posted all of levels 59 thru 66, as well as fixed the tedious rooms mentioned in the previous couple of sections.

Section 9 will be like KDD level 9, but will use invisbility potions as well - I posted it earlier but I feel it is good to refresh everyone on my ideas in more detail.

06-21-2024 at 11:44 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Does anyone have any commentary on levels 59 thru 66?

I know levels 61 and 66 have very similar rooms, but I think that's okay cause earlier levels did already and the variation is different enough I believe, cause the monster you use changes the puzzle mechanics.

[Last edited by azb at 07-02-2024 07:53 PM : Explained reason why rooms are different]

07-02-2024 at 07:51 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

I now have up to level 192, the last level of section 23, finished.

Levels 193 thru 200 will be the hardest, and not levels 201 thru 210, just like how in the original KDD levels 24 and 23 were the hardest and not level 25, even though level 25 was an ultimate boss fight climax.

07-06-2024 at 02:18 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

I believe in the spirit of other comments about doing the holds one at a time rather than all over the place, especially with lots of levels, it might be a wiser idea to get feedback on all 210 levels of the AE Edition first before I work on more levels for the JtRH edition, then the same idea - get feedback on all 210 levels of the JtRH Edition before I post more levels for the TCB Edition.

07-06-2024 at 03:26 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Hi everyone,

I have drafted up to level 201 now, so the first level where you meet the 'Neather.

I used an actual 'Neather like from Bad Evil Resteraunt or the original Dugan's Dungeon that started it all, rather than a scripted replica like robin's version does or The Blank Dungeon does.

07-06-2024 at 06:11 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Now I have every single level up to 210 drafted - obviously I will not state any of these drafts are final, but will revise them as appropriate if anyone thinks any of the rooms are too easy, too difficult, too boring or something else.

Note however it is intentional that many rooms in the hold are A: the same as other rooms with only a small twist, as some testers like Someone Else commented already, and B: the same rooms as in Dugan's Dungeon with only a small twist, as this hold is a direct tribute to it and I read in the official HA guidelines if the rooms aren't exactly the same as in other holds it is okay - they have to be 100% direct duplicates to be considered a bad hold.

07-06-2024 at 07:54 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

For my next section/levels:

Level 67 will involve split paths with only dealing with roaches, arrows and orbs, but nothing else

Level 68 will introduce invisibility potions

Level 69 will be hordes made easier with invisbility potions

Level 70 will involve shortcuts that are just as hard as the main solution

Level 71 will involve making choices, but both are about the same difficulty

Level 72 will be tons of stealth puzzles, given how used to invisibility you are now

Level 73 will be concentrically shaped

Level 74 will be a great wheel of manipulation puzzles like KDD level 9 original was

07-07-2024 at 07:53 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Does anyone have any comments on levels 59 thru 66?

I mentioned again I want to work on polishing this hold and finishing all 210 levels before I work more on the JtRH Edition, which makes more logical sense anyway vs spamming all 5 holds at once like I was doing before.

I want to intentionally keep the holds seperate holds to reflect the seperate palette of elements and styles used in each DROD version.

07-14-2024 at 09:02 PM

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Nuntar
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Sorry for neglecting this hold. It's fun!

Level 59 (Beethro in Space): Should be a small i. Move the south green door to the room edge; otherwise it's possible to clear the room, create a new tar baby, and go south and get stuck.

Level 60 (Beyond Blunderdome): Fun timer rooms -- simple but not trivial. My only slight issue here is that the intro text is a bit inaccurate, since you have to defuse the roach trap, not "clear the room", by turn 40.

Level 61 (Factor X): A nice pair of puzzle rooms. Entrance has a couple of different solutions: you can strike the orb with the mimic while Beethro leads the roach horizontally, or have the mimic drop the trapdoors with arrows while Beethro hits the orb. This isn't necessarily bad, especially as you revisit the room later, but I felt I should point it out.

Level 62 (Simple Fun): Not fun for me, these rooms all feel the same and we already had a room of this type in Level 59. My honest suggestion is to cut this level or replace it with something else.

Level 63 (12 Serpents): 1N is a bit simple, but the others are very nice puzzles :thumbsup

:thumbsup

Level 64 (Nooks): This is okay, the trapdoors make it not just a repeat of Level 59 1S. Still very simple; you could make the tar blobs more different by making all the 2x3 ones slightly larger and giving each one a slightly different walls/trapdoors setup.

Level 65 (Slightly Tarry): Entrance is a decent warm-up for the other two rooms, which are more puzzly tar cutting, a good follow-up to previous levels.

Level 66 (Cliffs of Insanity): Entrance is simple and different from previous levels, so that's good. 1W is a bit trickier than Level 61 Entrance although it still has a couple of different solutions (hit the orb with the mimic, or break up the tar and use it to fill the force arrows). Maybe (if there isn't going to be a third version) this should enforce the tar solution, by adding a broken wall at (16,3)?

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07-29-2024 at 01:11 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

All of these are awesome suggestions.

I intentionally wanted level 62 to be a more simpler version of earlier rooms, hence the level title, but I can make it slightly different by adding other elements like trapdoors which weren't in level 59.

All the other things I fixed exactly in the way you specified though, and there won't be a third version of the level 66 1W puzzle, that will be the last one, so I added the broken wall in that room instead to make the solution different than level 61 Entrance.

I am going to post levels 67 thru 74 now, which is focused on roach manipulation/herding and invisibility, similar to the original KDD level 9 except the original didn't have invisbility in it at all.

07-29-2024 at 11:34 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

After section 9 is tested and commented on and section 10 is published, level 84 will have the mysterious yellow door you can't open, just like the original KDD level 10 final room, as well as all of levels 75 thru 84 will involve spiders but no other sections will at all, also just like the original KDD.

07-29-2024 at 11:47 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

As mentioned earlier, all the level titles and ideas are intentional and will not be changed, even the seemingly ridiculous ones like "Pinball", because it's all based off the specific level names of other indie games, but the rooms themselves will be revisited as I get feedback as always.

07-30-2024 at 09:25 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Be mindful of that although section 11 doesn't have things hidden under tar because it's frowned upon and very annoying without a vision token, section 13 does have twisty, tricky mazes, but they're not as big as the original KDD level 13, so I feel they're reasonable for what they are.

07-31-2024 at 11:05 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Section 23, as I think I might have mentioned earlier, will have wraithwing puzzles as well as goblin puzzles and before the goblin puzzles in particular, because of how easier wraithwings are than goblins, but everything else will be exactly like the original KDD level referenced, complete with section 25 having the same rooms as the original KDD level 25 with only a small twist, just because of the fact the actual 'Neather is hard-coded to behave in a particular way in each room and you can't customize him like an NPC.

08-04-2024 at 12:07 PM

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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (+2)

Level 67 (Split Paths): Fun mini-puzzles. This is a good simple introduction to roach linchpins and thinking before charging ahead.

Level 68 (Something New?): Entrance is a nice introduction to invisibility -- easy but not completely trivial since you need to avoid being forced to back away and start attracting roaches behind you. The other two rooms are very nice puzzles where you have to work out a route around the room to avoid the traps.

Level 69 (Thug Lovin'): Entrance is not too bad -- a bit of thought needed to get into a good position on the first spawn. The other two rooms are weirdly easy and don't need the invisibility potions -- indeed, 1W is easier if you don't take it.

Level 70 (Shortcut): Entrance is a nice little puzzle, working out which trapdoor path allows you to get there and back and then finding a pattern to kill the roaches safely. 1N is too easy, though; I just moved south a little so that when I reached 18,16 there were no roaches coming from above, and then just stood on that square and swung away.

Level 71 (Choices): Nice level theme. Entrance is much easier with invisibility, but possible both ways. 1N is obviously easier if the roach goes through the maze, since if the queen does then you have to deal with spawns -- still, both are possible. But I think 1W is only possible with the mimic.

Level 72 (They're All Ears): Excellent, and shows that you are really starting to be able to make good puzzle levels. On the simple side (I only took two potions in Entrance and one in the other two rooms) but definitely, all the rooms made me stop and think.

Level 73 (Concentric): Didn't enjoy Entrance at all; it goes on way too long and there's no real thought. Then 1W is mainly a misdirection puzzle where you have to realise it's better not to take the invisibility -- still, a genuinely good linchpin puzzle :thumbsup

:thumbsup

Level 74 (Great Wheel): KDD L9-style rooms but very easy. Entrance has no doors that close, so you can go through the arrow corridor first and mop up leftover roaches afterwards. (Deliberate?) 1N and 1W each can be done without using all the chambers. 1N1W shows that it's easier to fill the larger chamber first, although it's possible both ways.

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09-04-2024 at 05:43 AM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

All awesome and helpful/insightful feedback!

Will fix all issues mentioned, except for level 74 being easy compared to the original level being referenced, which is intentional.

Be on the lookout for the epic batch of the next 10 levels, which are the only levels that will involve spiders, just like the original KDD progression.

09-04-2024 at 11:27 PM

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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Section 12 will be just like KDD level 12 (more advanced serpent puzzles), but sections 11 and 13 will be different than the infamous original examples, so section 11 will be like a more advanced section 8, and section 13 will be like a more advanced section 6, recapping sections 7 thru 12 rather than sections 1 thru 5.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but I believe it's always good for a refresher.

Sections 14 thru 25 will be exactly like the original levels being referenced, so section 14 will be an introduction to goblins, section 16 will be using tar mothers strategically, section 17 will be tar horde efficiency, and so on.

09-05-2024 at 06:45 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

To recap in full, all of my future levels will be, now that I have all the levels finished:

Click here to view the secret text

I posted these earlier, but again it's always good for a refresher. All solid ideas?

[Last edited by azb at 09-05-2024 07:29 PM : Silly typos: "ALl" should be "All"]

09-05-2024 at 07:29 PM

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azb
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Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)

Although I have all levels up to 210 drafted, I have levels 85 thru 92 in more polished versions drafted for once levels 75 thru 84 are tested and commented on.

10-01-2024 at 03:34 PM

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