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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (210 short but engaging levels, using nothing but AE elements)
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
I know I posted earlier about my ideas for all 210 levels of this hold, and I am thinking of making 210 levels for all 5 DROD versions, 5 seperate holds with the same concept, so my ideas for all of them, although I know obviously this is only a first draft and should make changes as needed:

For JtRH:

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For TCB:

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For GatEB:

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And finally for TSS:

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Note that cause it's the same level names and ideas each time, each hold has similar ideas for each level but with different elements because of the different game engine being used,

And each one is slightly different not only because of the engine, but also because it is fitting the story of the original hold it is referencing, like this current hold I am working on now.

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02-22-2024 at 04:31 PM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
Does anyone have comments on my ideas for the other 4 holds, or for more importantly, my improvements on Bricks A Lot entrance, so that I can publish the next 2 levels (Bing! and Stronghold)?

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[Last edited by azb at 02-27-2024 07:21 PM : Re-visited my post for accuracy to what actually was going on at the time]
02-27-2024 at 07:20 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
I really like the idea of Bricks a Lot: Entrance. Some of the obstacles are far enough apart that you need to use up trapdoors, but you have to think carefully about which ones to use and how to get the mimic to the right horizontal space while going down the vertical corridor.

Unfortunately, the second half of the room feels a bit tacked-on, because none of the obstacles are far enough apart to require using the trapdoors any more. I would definitely tweak this a little.

As for the other holds, a 1050-level project is certainly ambitious ;) and I'm not sure why you want to do another "tribute to the canon holds in order" project, but hey, if it helps you get ideas and those ideas lead to fun rooms, there's no problem.

What kind of feedback were you looking for on your idea lists?

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02-27-2024 at 10:34 PM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
Just any feedback in general, like if you like the idea or think any details need revisiting, or literally anything else you could think of; "I don't like that idea" without an explanation is also okay here cause I am only looking for generic feedback,

and not the kind where I want to revise things and need particular details to revise them correctly.

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02-27-2024 at 11:18 PM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
And yeah, the math does add up to that number, but again each level is very very short, so that's why I can get away with it more easily.

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02-27-2024 at 11:19 PM
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azb
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For level 31 involving manipulating multiple mimics at once, does anyone know how to enforce needing all the mimics being present at the same exact time, so that way you can't cheat and finish using one mimic completely before starting using the other one?

Likewise, for level 32's idea, does anyone know to implement the idea of a door closing after a specific number of turns after you open it every time, using nothing but the elements used in AE KDD level 4 (wraithwings, walls, yellow doors, trapdoors etc, but no pressure plates or anything like that)?

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02-27-2024 at 11:38 PM
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Nuntar
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Level 31: Each mimic can have a designated starting place (typically next to a roach), and then each starting place can be behind a door, and the orb that opens them all also closes a door blocking access to the mimic potions.

Level 32: With only KDD elements, the only thing that can close a (yellow) door is Beethro or a mimic striking an orb. So you would have to force the player to re-close the door, probably by having the initial opening release a roach that will go into a force arrow trap after a certain number of turns if (the same or another) orb isn't struck.

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02-27-2024 at 11:51 PM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (+3)  
These are all great ideas! Thank you so much for them!

I wanted to intentionally limit my palette to AE only elements not only because of the theme, but more importantly I wanted to challenge myself to making clever devices/contraptions without needing to use fancy scripting for them.

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02-28-2024 at 12:11 PM
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azb
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I am also going to use all of these mechanisms in section 5 thru 25/all the rest of the hold, which starts at level 33, as the hold becomes more and more complex, just like how the puzzles in KDD level 4 became much more complex than levels 1 thru 3.



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02-28-2024 at 12:28 PM
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azb
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I have drafts of levels 33 thru 40 finished as well, so be prepared for wraithwings added to the mix of new things;

does anyone have any comments on levels 29 and 30 before I show levels 31 and 32?

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[Last edited by azb at 03-07-2024 05:29 PM : Update the number of levels I have drafted]
03-07-2024 at 05:14 PM
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azb
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As mentioned earlier in the plans for every level, however, section 6 doesn't introduce new elements but just re-uses new elements in a more challenging way with harder puzzles that weren't seen before, just like KDD level 6 that it is referencing.

In particular:

Level 43 will get you used to lots of pit puzzles and trapdoor puzzles but no red doors yet

Level 44 will get you used to force arrow puzzles that only go in one way

Level 45 will get you used to more intensive combat, so expect mimics to be involved as well

Level 46 will get you use to more mimic manipulation puzzles

Level 47 will re-use level 17's idea but in a more complex manner

Level 48 will be a revision of level 15 with all the new puzzles
and elements you saw since then

Level 49 will be a level in the shape of a keychain

Level 50 will be a level involving tons of crumbly wall puzzles, like being extremely careful and precise with what walls you cut.

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03-07-2024 at 05:35 PM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
More elaborates details on the next 50 levels after level 50:

Click here to view the secret text


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03-08-2024 at 06:59 PM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
Ideas for levels 101 thru 150:

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03-09-2024 at 11:45 AM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
Ideas for levels 151 thru 210, the rest of the hold:

Click here to view the secret text


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[Last edited by azb at 03-09-2024 12:38 PM : Fixed typos in first line]
03-09-2024 at 12:37 PM
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azb
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Does anyone have any feedback on levels 29 and 30, so I can fix anything that needs to be fixed before I just randomly send levels 31 and 32?

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03-10-2024 at 06:01 PM
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azb
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I have drafts of levels 33 thru 50 already done, so all of sections 5 and 6, so that way they are easy to send out once I have comments on levels 31 and 32; however, I know not to make them available until levels 29 and 30 are commented on, and also levels 31 and 32 after those levels.

I also know as always to post only batches of 2 levels at most at a time, because I don't want to spam testers with level after level all at once.

This is even more important for the later sections where the puzzles get more involved, and I don't want them to sit through tons and tons of tricky puzzles and intense combat rooms and be forced to re-do all of them if I end up having to change them.

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[Last edited by azb at 03-13-2024 01:54 PM : Clarified my intention]
03-13-2024 at 11:47 AM
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azb
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Now I have all of up to level 71 drafted - the puzzles definitely get more involved starting in level 67 than the sections you just came from, but the catch is there is no tar or snakes, despite them literally just being introduced, just invsibility potions and all the elements from sections 1 thru 6.

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03-18-2024 at 06:39 PM
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azb
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Okay, now it's up to level 74 drafted. And actually, I don't include wraithwings either in the puzzles I am doing, so it's actually using only the elements from sections 1 thru 4, and I don't use pre-placed pits either, only trapdoors, because it's just like KDD level 9, with tons of manipulation puzzles.

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03-22-2024 at 12:54 PM
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azb
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Does anyone have any comments on levels 29 and 30 before I show levels 31 and 32?

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03-30-2024 at 10:47 PM
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azb
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While I waited for feedback, I have drafts all the way up to level 142 done now, but again I will only post 2 levels at a time and wait for levels 29 and 30 to be tested on before I post any more levels, end of story.

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04-24-2024 at 11:17 PM
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azb
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Okay, now I have up to level 158 drafted, but again I will still wait for people to post about levels 29 and 30 before I post any more levels.

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04-29-2024 at 09:54 PM
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azb
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Just to be clear, all the drafts are not because I am "being too busy making new levels to make an actually good hold" like a lot of newbie architects do, but just so that the levels are easily ready to publish and get feedback on once the earlier existing levels are tested and commented on.

On that note, I have up to level 168 drafted.

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04-30-2024 at 01:56 PM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
I know I explained it earlier, but my plan is for the rest of the levels, so for sections 21 thru 25 in more detail now that I have all of sections 1 thru 20 in official drafts:

Click here to view the secret text


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04-30-2024 at 02:47 PM
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azb
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My plan difficulty wise for every hold, not just the AE Edition, is that sections 1 and 2 will be 1 to 2 brains, sections 3 thru 5 will require more thinking but nothing too complex yet like 4 brains, sections 6 thru 9 will be about intermediate difficulty, so 5 to 6 brains, sections 10 thru 13 will be somewhat advanced, so 7 brains, sections 14 thru 18 will be definitely advanced, like 8 brains, sections 19 thru 21 will be expert level, like 9 brains, sections 22 thru 24 will be master level, 10 brains, and finally section 25 will not be the hardest but will just be a "climax/closing sequence" that serves as both combat against a final boss of sorts as well as a wrap up to the story.

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04-30-2024 at 11:51 PM
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Nuntar
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Bing!:

Entrance and 1W are interesting challenges, especially the part halfway down where the orbs got pretty dense. Not sure we need both rooms, when they are so similar and the second one is quite a bit easier.

1N is breakable since you are not required to put the mimic in the orb box, although it doesn't much matter since it's easy either way.

Stronghold:

Entrance: This is just Sticky Situation Entrance with roach queens added, which doesn't make much difference since there are enough walls to get around and kill leftover roaches. It's okay for an easy intro room although personally I don't like repeating an earlier room for this.

1W: Ah, this is the introduction to using roaches as leverage. A bit of a strange and potentially frustrating room as the playing area is so large and manipulating the mimic is tricky in spite of that; also, once the south corridor is cleaned out, the player has to be careful not to stand in the entrance tile and send a queen back that way. Still, it wasn't too bad to solve.

1N: Really nice room! Lots of potential for using the mimic in different ways, and the player is invited to come up with their own strategy. My winning strategy was to use it to clear out the NW box before striking the orb, after which Beethro could easily handle everything else.

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05-08-2024 at 08:32 PM
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azb
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Thank you so much for the feedback! Level 1N in Bing! being solvable without the orb box certainly wasn't intended, but the room being easy in general is because of how early in the game you are.

The entrance to Stronghold using the same theme as Sticky Situation Entrance is intentional, because I plan on re-using the same room with only a small twist throughout the hold, just like in levels 12 and 13 earlier.

1W I felt wasn't too bad, but 1N I am glad you like as is.

I will add levels 31 and 32 next, and then section 5 will be intentionally much harder than even level 30.

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[Last edited by azb at 05-08-2024 09:00 PM : Typo corrections]
05-08-2024 at 09:00 PM
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azb
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Hi everyone,

Given feedback I got about not posting only two levels at a time on the JtRH edition thread, I posted all the rest of up to level 40 now and not just only levels 31 and 32 - expect a ton of chaotic wraithwing combat.

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05-29-2024 at 09:20 PM
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Nuntar
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Blues: Nice rooms. Manipulating two mimics at once is a step up in difficulty but not too bad, and it helps that you can mostly work on getting one mimic over to its eye without the other getting stuck.

Timed Doors: This was a bit weird, because the name and intro text lead the player to think it's a race to hit the "close" orb before the roach gets stuck, but it's actually a race to get north of the trap. Still, a nice simple linchpin.

Burlier Brawl: In Entrance and 1N the wraithwings barely make a difference, since after you kill the first couple, the others are all on the same side of Beethro and will stay away.

1W is a nice room about manipulating the wraithwing to where it can be killed on the first queen. Easy for me as I've done this many times before, not sure how it would come across to a new player.

Up and Around: Entrance and 1N are nice linchpin rooms, and then 1E is just... fighting some eyes on trapdoors? Seems unthematic and rather trivial.

Tiny Rooms: I guess the title is a joke, since these rooms use the whole room area. Entrance is pretty tough, and it took me a while to find a good way to get started.

1W is all about the puzzle of getting into the eyes' area without waking any, and that part is good. But then you have to go back and forth several times (most likely with roaches still spwaning) to kill all the eyes, since some of the west eyes can see into the south eyes' area and vice versa. This is tedious. The best way to prevent it would be to add walls on tiles like (14,28) to block the eyes from seeing into each other's boxes.

Blunderdome: Very simple introduction to the concept. 1N makes you think about sword direction when entering, which is nice.

F A S T: Backtracking issue -- Entrance is unsolvable if the player leaves without solving it. The simplest fix is to block the west exit with a green door. Good room though, some strategic thinking needed to avoid the traps.

1W was oddly trivial. Since you don't have to kill the queen within a timer, you can just race to the south, mop up the eyes, and then open the door.

Inner Path: I admit, I don't understand what the theme here is, other than all the rooms being mostly trapdoors. Entrance is rather tedious eye-killing on trapdoors, like that one room from KDD L5. 1S is all about knowing the manouevres that keep the last wraithwing on the "good" side of you so you can move it to your killing spot of choice (the north entrance, the NW corner and the green door are all possible). Then 2S is really trivial.

Cold War: Entrance is by far the toughest room in these 10 levels. I decided to take only two potions so I could keep the mimics next to both side walls and kill as many queens as possible before the first spawn; after clearing out the south queens, getting in a good position to go back up was pretty tricky. Checkpoints need work, as it wasn't really possible to "tag" any of them to save progress. Good locations would be one tile inwards from each corner and the middle of each side.

1N doesn't need the mimic if you know how to manipulate wraithwings, although you may prefer to keep it for less experienced players (and maybe have a secret variant without, since you can't have challenges?)

1W is a nice room about forming a mimic "car" to keep Beethro safe (which in this case only needs one mimic). There is an unintended solution, using the closed doors as shelter. I didn't have a problem with the number of roaches, but you may want to reduce the number for anyone playing in AE (who won't have the battle key).

Four Little Boxes: Fun horde rooms. Entrance avoids the common problem of horde rooms getting gradually easier as you clear them out, since it was quite tricky to fight a way into the last box. 1W is interestingly different because of having to keep an eye on Beethro's surroundings while getting the mimics to the queens.

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05-31-2024 at 02:53 AM
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azb
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (0)  
Thank you for the feedback!

I fixed the checkpoints in level 39 entrance, and the tedious eye clearing in Tiny Rooms 1W, as well as the confusing description to Timed Doors, as well as the backtracking issue in F A S T entrance.

However, the other things like rooms being easy to the point of being trivial in many levels to you or the complaint about level 34 having an unthematic room or level 35's title being not appropriate/a joke I did not address,

Because the eye room in level 34 is intentionally designed the way it is, because the theme is just any puzzles done in a specific order, not of a particular theme, and level 35 is "tiny rooms" because you need to navigate yourself in narrow spaces even if the spaces don't look narrow, and finally the easy rooms are intentional because KDD level 5 had some ridiculously easy rooms as well, and they're still not as easy as section 1 or 2's were - they do require some strategy.

With that said, I have added levels 41 thru 50, and there is one room in level 45 that requires some back and forth with the eyes, but that is intentional because of that particular room doesn't have anything else going on, and none of the rooms should be as easy as the easy rooms you brought up, although there are no new elements being introduced, just new puzzles, just like how the original KDD progressed.



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05-31-2024 at 05:53 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: 210 Levels of Terror: AE Edition (+1)  
Not everything is a complaint! :P Sometimes I'm just talking generally about my impressions of the rooms, because that's the kind of feedback I find useful when it comes to my holds.

Tiny Rooms 1W: My suggestion was to block tiles where the eyes look into each other's boxes. You've blocked the tiles where they look out -- which is fine in that it solves the original problem; but now nine of the eyes are blocked from watching the main puzzle area, so it might now be a lot easier than you intended.

It's up to you whether or not to change this -- just a matter of whether you're okay with it being easier or you want it closer to the original difficulty.

If you decide to change it, the walls should be at (28,28), (26,28) (which does block one eye, but you could put the wall at (25,27) instead, or move the eye, or whatever), (18,28), (14,28). Then the eyes at (1,7) and (24,30) are looking at each other, so you would have to move one or the other if you want to allow both to look out but neither to look in.

* * *

Sampler Platter (L41): I like the monster mazes, but it was a little disappointing that the wraithwing version would work equally well with a roach, and you don't use the unique thing about a wraithwing -- the player's ability to both pull and push it.

1N is a neat little puzzle of getting the last wraithwing to a position where it can be pushed against the green door (not sure if other killing spots work). By comparison, 1N1E is disappointingly easy because the presence of the boxed wraithwings guarantees being able to kill all the loose ones. Maybe switch the two rooms?

It's Not Easy (L42): The Entrance just requires waking eyes and then retreating to the room edge to kill them safely, and goes on a bit long after it's made its point. 1W is very easy given that using the boxed wraithwing has already been introduced. 1N is the only tricky room here, and took a while to come up with a good strategy. I recommended adding a checkpoint at (2,2) (mimics also activate checkpoints!)

Icy Danger (L43): Pretty good horde rooms that take a while to reach the tipping point after which clean-up is easy. 1W is slightly the easier of the two.

One-Way Roads (L44): Filler, but pretty harmless as it took less than a minute to clear both rooms.

Sock It To Ya (L45): Not a fan of this one. All three rooms are easier versions of things I've already done in earlier levels, so they feel like rather tedious padding.

Bricks 'n' Bots (L46): This is cool. Three mimics at once now, but with care it's still possible to keep two of them mostly stationary while moving the third over to its eye.

Jump Around (L47): This could be a neat concept, but it's let down by how easy the rooms are. I'd really recommend taking the time to make L45 and this a bit tougher and more puzzly.

Klones (L48): This is just more roach hordes with nothing really special or interesting going on.

Keychain (L49): Very easy but harmless as it's so short. The walls aren't needed in either room, since in Entrance you can use the green door to kill the last wraithwing, and in 1S you can use the north edge.

Demolition (L50): Also not very inspired. Entrance just gives you an obvious task to do, with no puzzle or danger. 1W is entirely about when you release the queen (and if you do so on turn 29, the room takes barely any time at all!) 1S is broken because you can hit the orb first and then go kill the roach. I suspect that you wanted a door at (9,25), closed by the orb, so that the player would have to carve a path for the roach first -- although it would still be very easy as you can just bring it up the east side.

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