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ErikH2000
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icon Testers please for build 36. (0)  
This thing is soooo long, it needs a...

Table of Contents

0. IF YOU ONLY READ ONE THING!
1. Introduction
2. The Latest
3. Anatomy of an Excellent Bug Report
4. For Aspiring Architects
5. "Safe" Upgrade Process

0. IF YOU ONLY READ ONE THING!

At time of writing, DROD is chock-full of bugs. As a result, several testers have lost their DROD data along the way, and it has been discouraging for everyone. Ironically, the new features in DROD encourage you to create data, but be warned: holds, saved games, demos, and player settings are vulnerable to data loss.

Also, as long as you don't uninstall the Caravel DROD 1.5 (the previously-released stable version of DROD) you will be able to reimport your old saved games, demos, and player settings that were created in DROD 1.5 if things go wrong.

1. Introduction

Anybody want to help beat up on DROD? We are beginning beta-testing for what I call, "Deadly Rooms of Death: Architect's Edition". This is a big release for us, since it has the much-clamored-for level editor. (Wait til you see it!) A lot of complexity has been introduced by the features that allow importing, exporting, and collaboration between players, so I predict there will be many problems that need to be discovered through some intensive testing.

For the last release of DROD, we had what is called a "closed beta". This means we were a bit selective about including people in testing. (Or maybe the testers were selective about including us in their busy lives.) But anyhow, after we knew who was in, we locked the door to our clubhouse, and carried out communication through private e-mails. (Yeah, like everbody else desperately wanted to know what we were talking about.) Typically, the advantage of a closed beta is an improved quality of communication. Or in other words, we spend less time figuring out what people are trying to say. It turns out that the key person who ran our last closed beta, Brad Wall, is busy with lifey stuff. (That bastard!) With Brad off doing other things, it made me reconsider how to handle the beta.

I think we will instead try an open beta. An "open beta" means that anybody is welcome to participate. What's good about an open beta? More people means more bug reports, and supposedly we could learn what needs to be fixed more quickly. What's bad about it? The quality of communication tends to go down, and we have to spend more time figuring out what people are saying. In theory, anyhow. We'll see how it goes.

I enjoyed the comradery we had on the closed beta for the last release, and don't want to lose that tight teamwork. The people we worked with were fantastic! I'm glad that many of them are helping out again on Architect's Edition. (Welcome back Clayton, Martin, Peter, Russ, Stuart, and Mark!) I don't want this to be a lot of drudgery--we will have fun! I've got future surprises in store for people who help clean up this release.

Man, I sure like the sound of my own typing.

If you want to participate, here's what you do:
1. Read "Anatomy of an Excellent Bug Report" section to get an idea of what we need from you. You might be scared away, but I hope not.
2. Send an e-mail to bugs@drod.net. Include:
- your full name (so we can put it in the credits)
- your alias on the DROD.net forums
- the e-mail address we should use if we need to reach you
- your configuration including operating system, processor, and memory.
3. Read "The Latest" for instructions on downloading DROD. This section will be updated as we come out with new builds. (A "build" is a version of DROD you can install on your computer. In our case, newer builds have more bugs fixed than earlier builds.)
4. Post your bug reports to this board.
5. Check back on the board to see if me, Mike, or one of our testing coordinators has questions about the bug. When we understand the bug correctly and plan to fix it, you'll see a reply at the end of the post that says "Entered in database."

-Erik

2. The Latest

The latest version of DROD is shown in the subject of this message. You can download it from:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10939

This is a beta version of DROD, so it's got bugs in it. If you just want to play a solid game of DROD, I recommend the previously-released stable version. It can also be found at the above URL as "Caravel DROD 1.5 Setup". When we get through beta testing, you'll have full-blown DROD ecstacy with nothing to complain about.

Please, don't distribute any beta version of DROD. That's like peeing in a reservoir.

3. Anatomy of an Excellent Bug Report

Here are some things to keep in mind when you are reporting bugs:

1. Try to report on bugs in the latest build. If you report on bugs in earlier builds than the latest, there's a good chance you'll come up with problems that have already been fixed. Even if your problem has never been reported before, we will want to know if it is present in the latest build.

2. Your subject line should be a summary of the problem. It's hard to browse through the board messages when they all say things like "A bug", "testing", "Another bug", "Something else I found".

3. Each bug should get a separate topic on the board. Don't reply to a message about one bug, with a message describing a new bug that you found. Just put your new bug in a new topic.

4. The bug report itself should contain not just a description of what went wrong, but what needs to be done to recreate the same problem on another computer. If we can't reproduce your bug, we can't fix it.

BAD: "DROD crashed."
BETTER: "DROD crashed on the title screen."
GOOD: "DROD sometimes crashes when you click on top lefthand corner of the title screen."
EXCELLENT: "Wait on the title screen until the screen begins fading to black as it changes to the demo screen. Click on the top lefthand corner. BAM! It crashes for me every time."

What We are Looking for

Basically, I want to know about anything in DROD that could use improvement. To give you an idea, here are some of the problems I'd like you to cover in your bug reports.

- You are trying to do something and the program won't let you. Maybe an error message comes up or the program exits unexpectedly.

- You expect something to happen, but the program does something else which is incorrect or confusing.

- You have to do something unusual or inconvenient to get the program to do what you want, a.k.a. a "workaround". The interface should be easy for you to use.

- Something looks ugly. Something sounds bad. Although, not strictly a bug, a cosmetic concern is good to hear.

- Performance is slow on your computer. Some areas of the program might be slower than others.

Although there is often a fine line between the two, you should distinguish between bugs and feature requests. A bug is a problem for us to fix, i.e. "The monster attacks me when I'm invisible". A feature request is something new you want to put into DROD, i.e. "I would like a monster that will attack
me when I'm invisible."

Feature requests are welcome too, but don't expect a lot of attention to be paid to them during beta-testing. We have set up a public forum where you can discuss them with the Caravel team and DROD players at large.

http://www.drod.net/forum/viewboard.php?BoardID=3


4. For Aspiring Architects

If you'd like to make some "real" holds during the beta period that can be released to the world later, that's great! Creating real rooms is the best way to test all the new editing functionality, plus the DROD people will get your new hold to play with. However, be warned that the editor is likely to have bugs in it that will put your data at risk. If you want to make real holds and avoid losing your work along the way, here is what I recommend:

1. Wait for at least a week of testing and bug-fixing to go by before beginning any ambitious project. If you see open bugs related to importing and exporting holds, then you should wait until these are fixed. If there are any really horrible bugs that would require us changing the data in a way that would make your work unusable, it would likely come up early. This is why I say "wait a week".
2. Install DROD twice to two different directories--one will be your "primary" installation and the other will be your "backup" installation.
3. Edit your hold in the primary installation. When you've finished a chunk of work (maybe every few hours or at the end of a session), export your hold to a file. Name the file with the date, or use some other naming convention that allows you to keep more than one export file. You don't want to overwrite your old export files because you may need them if problems come up to recover your data or aid in troubleshooting.
4. Import the file from step 3 into your backup installation.
5. In the backup installation, play through the rooms you just added a little bit to see if they imported correctly. Things to check:
a. All the rooms you recently added are present.
b. There aren't "extra" rooms present in the level.
c. The rooms look the same.
d. Orbs affect doors in the same way.
e. Scrolls display text correctly.
f. Stairs take you to the correct level.

There are other things that could be checked, but I think these are the important ones. As opposed to manually playing through the rooms in the backup installation, you may find it easier to export victory demos from the primary installation, import them into the backup installation, and play back the demos to make sure everything works.

5. "Safe" Upgrade Process

Well, I don't want you to think anything in beta-testing is safe. It's crazy out there, man--you could lose everything! But presumably you would want to try to preserve your data from one build to the next. This is what you should do to keep your saved games, demos, holds, and player settings reasonably protected from the rough-and-tumble build upgrades.

First, check the "Changes for build X" post for instructions on the upgrade. I will say whether or not the upgrade will overwrite your data files. If the upgrade doesn't overwrite your data, just run it and you should still have your data on the other side. Note that the data-overwrite is necessary for some builds because we will have made changes to the data files that need to be present.

If the upgrade installation does overwrite your data, here is how to preserve it:

1. Run the previous build of DROD, or at least the latest build that has data in it that you'd like to have in the new installation.

2. Export your player and holds. Demos too, if you want them, though that is more work because you have to go to each room that contains a demo that you want to export. I advise appending the build# to the name of the file. This will be helpful if you run into errors later.

3. You can either run the upgrade installation into the directory of the latest build (see "Changes for build x" post for info on what builds can be upgraded) or, if you want to be slightly safer, run the full installation into a new directory. The latter choice can be useful for troubleshooting errors that might come up during import/export.

4. Run the just-installed build of DROD.

5. Import your players, holds, and demos.

6. If you run into an error in the above process, please report it right away. Data loss bugs have the highest priority, since they make testing unpleasant and difficult.

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 08-13-2003 at 12:48 AM GMT: Update subject for build 36.]

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06-15-2003 at 02:46 AM
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Just a minor quibble here: Perhaps you could post the forum names of the people involved in the coordination? That would make it easier for all of us to figure out whether someone else already is looking at the bug.

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06-15-2003 at 09:32 PM
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ErikH2000
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Watcher wrote:
Just a minor quibble here: Perhaps you could post the forum names of the people involved in the coordination? That would make it easier for all of us to figure out whether someone else already is looking at the bug.
Makes sense. The testing coordinators are:
claytonw (Clayton Weiss)
key-smiter (Russ Kemp)
:huh (Peter King)
watcher (Martin Jacobsen)

-Erik

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 06-17-2003 at 12:08 AM GMT: Found out Stuart was the key-smiter.]

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 06-17-2003 at 12:54 AM]

[Edited by ErikH2000 on 06-17-2003 at 12:56 AM]

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06-16-2003 at 03:50 PM
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ErikH2000
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Also, I thought about it a little more, and downloading the entire 13mb setup just upgrade one file is kinda dumb. I'll start providing an upgrade setup next build.

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06-16-2003 at 08:13 PM
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eytanz
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Erik - would you mind listing the changes when you distribute a new build? It would make testing a lot easier if we knew what was supposed to change, and what not (so that if it did change, it's a bug).

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06-16-2003 at 08:40 PM
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And, speaking of which, are we distributing that readme with a list of general changes from version 1.5 with the release?

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06-16-2003 at 08:51 PM
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I just wanted to stop the bug reporting for a minute to say to Mike & Erik - One HECK of a nice job you guys have done with this. The level editor will bring an incredible new depth to the game, and hopefully draw a ton of new people in.

Great job!

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06-16-2003 at 09:16 PM
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icon Build 19 changes. (0)  
People with build 15, 16, or 17 can use the build 19 upgrade instead of the full install. It will not overwrite your data. The upgrade installer is much also much smaller to download.

We think these bugs were fixed in build 19. If you were able to see the bug previously, (maybe you reported it) it would be helpful if you'd take a moment to verify that the bug is really gone in this build.

79659 Cannot run program in Windows ME or 98
79697 Deleting snakes during placement may destroy other snakes.
79696 Right mouse button does nothing in the level editor
79762 "Esc" has counterintuitive behavior during exit.
79761 Inapplicable "gratz screens".
79753 Selected element doesn't change when switching styles.
79690 Music/sound sliders don't work if mouse is released outside them.
79698 No background color on help files.
79763 wording change in editselect.html.
79691 "Rename hold" doesn't work if you only append characters.
79890 In room editor, make mouse wheel rotate orientation..
79883 Separate deletions from object and monster layers..
79878 BUG: Changing others layers on door/orb removes agents..
79875 BUG: Can't type in directory name in FileDialogWidget. .

Thanks!

-Erik

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06-16-2003 at 10:07 PM
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ErikH2000
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Also, we skipped build 18 for boring technical reasons. Don't be surprised if it happens again. Build#s don't cost anything, so I use as many as I want!

-Erik

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06-16-2003 at 10:14 PM
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Also, we skipped build 18 for boring technical reasons. Don't be surprised if it happens again. Build#s don't cost anything, so I use as many as I want!

-Erik

As I recall, 18 is an unlucky number in Beethro's world, wasn't it? That can be your excuse. =P

*currently downloading the new build...*
My leet testing skillz will soon be unleashed!
06-16-2003 at 10:19 PM
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ErikH2000
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ClaytonW wrote:
As I recall, 18 is an unlucky number in Beethro's world, wasn't it? That can be your excuse. =P
Oh wow! Now that you mention it, that must be the reason. I only thought it was some versioning/CVS issue, when in fact it was Interdimensional Fate!

-Erik

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06-16-2003 at 10:24 PM
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ErikH2000 wrote:
79697 Deleting snakes during placement may destroy other snakes.
This bug still shows up for me.

I let it save it in an invalid configuration (snake with no tail) and now I can't enter the Build screen without it crashing. :)


[Edited by Schik on 06-16-2003 at 11:00 PM]

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06-16-2003 at 11:00 PM
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Schik wrote:
This bug still shows up for me.

I let it save it in an invalid configuration (snake with no tail) and now I can't enter the Build screen without it crashing. :)
Okay, I reopened it.

-Erik

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06-17-2003 at 12:07 AM
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ErikH2000 wrote:
79762 "Esc" has counterintuitive behavior during exit
It still happens - choose quit, then press Escape and DROD closes.

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06-17-2003 at 07:09 PM
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It's fixed.
06-17-2003 at 11:32 PM
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Erik - minor note: the sourceforge release name for the full install of build 24 says build 23.

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06-28-2003 at 04:00 AM
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krammer wrote:
ErikH2000 wrote:
79762 "Esc" has counterintuitive behavior during exit
It still happens - choose quit, then press Escape and DROD closes.

Gah...
That was not counterintuitive. Pressing escape numerous times to exit a program is also known as the "boss key". In 1.5, if my boss walked in, I hit escape three times and DROD went away. Now I have to click something, too. Very unsubtle.
07-07-2003 at 08:38 PM
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Snicker wrote:
That was not counterintuitive. Pressing escape numerous times to exit a program is also known as the "boss key". In 1.5, if my boss walked in, I hit escape three times and DROD went away. Now I have to click something, too. Very unsubtle.

Maybe you should put in a feature request for a 'Boss Key'? The proposed handling of Esc is the correct usage (Escape's back to where you were).


07-08-2003 at 05:20 PM
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ross wrote:
The proposed handling of Esc is the correct usage (Escape's back to where you were).
Including back to the OS.

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07-08-2003 at 07:24 PM
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mrimer wrote:
ross wrote:
The proposed handling of Esc is the correct usage (Escape's back to where you were).
Including back to the OS.
I'm going to have to disagree here - the Esc in question is in response to the "Do you really want to quit" dialog. It's counter-intuitive that Esc in that situations means "Yes, I do". Open up Word, type a few chars in a new document, then do a File->Exit. It asks if you want to save. If you hit Esc, it does not exit. I'm not saying that Word is what DROD should be designed after, just using it as an example of standard behavior that users *expect*.

I'd go so far to say that changing the language would be even worse - When I attempt to quit a program, I expect it to say "Do you really want to?", not "Do you really not want to?" I know that's not exactly what it would say, but it would still be very bad - I've seen a program or two that reversed the expected question, and it's not a good thing.

I definitely agree with Eytanz here - Esc "should never be used to confirm anything."

Heck, if Escape means "Yes", maybe Alt-F4 should mean "toggle full screen" and F1 should mean "Quit to desktop". And to activate buttons on the main menu, you hover your mouse over them and press the I key.


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07-08-2003 at 07:38 PM
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Don't you not really not want not to not leave the program? :D

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07-08-2003 at 09:47 PM
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mrimer wrote:
Don't you not really not want not to not leave the program? :D
Sounds like this sentence includes a little bit of questioning into the deep spiritual debate of whether you actually want to quit DROD or not... :D

It appears to ask, after the two sets of double negatives are cancelled out,

Do you not really want to leave the program?

Sorry if I've ruined the fun, mrimer, but this time, I just couldn't help it...

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07-08-2003 at 11:06 PM
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agaricus5 wrote:
two sets of double negatives

That's a lot of negatives. :P:D

-Noah

[Edited by NoahT on 08-14-2003 at 04:13 PM GMT: Emoticon]

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07-22-2003 at 06:08 AM
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icon Re: Testers please for build 36. (0)  
For build 36, the link above is broken...and it seems like it is Sourceforge's fault. Any alternate link possibilities, Erik?

Game on,

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08-13-2003 at 01:20 AM
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Oneiromancer wrote:
For build 36, the link above is broken...and it seems like it is Sourceforge's fault. Any alternate link possibilities, Erik?

Game on,

Down for maintenance. Guessing the filename and URL...

http://easynews.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/drod/CDROD1_6b36.exe
http://osdn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/drod/CDROD1_6b36.exe
http://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/drod/CDROD1_6b36.exe

I'm downloading from the Easynews one above...
08-13-2003 at 01:32 AM
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Thanks...hey, that's even the full install, just the way I like it...

Game on,

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08-13-2003 at 02:05 AM
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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Bugs : Testers please for build 36.
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