averagemoe
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 487
Registered: 03-22-2012
IP: Logged

File: book.png (3 MB)
Downloaded 76 times.
License: Public Domain

So I thought, "What if the Fork of Infinity could be replaced with a World Map?"

Well, something of the like. I came up with a sort of alternate use of the feature. An image of a blank book, that the chapters would appear on as they're unlocked. And there's some extra empty space surrounding it for things like the Interlude levels and... whatever the Enigma Temple is.

____________________________
There are two types of sheep in the world. Those who jump off a bridge when told to, and those who jump off a bridge when told not to. Don't be either.

mauvebutterfly
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 720
Registered: 05-03-2015
IP: Logged

Some people prefer hub levels to world maps. I think it's a bit late to be making a change like this at this point, in any event.

____________________________
106th Skywatcher

mauvebutterfly
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 720
Registered: 05-03-2015
IP: Logged

File: EntryPointWorldMap.png (15.3 KB)
Downloaded 413 times.
License: Public Domain

Actually, you know what, you're on to something here. We could totally do this on a world map.



____________________________
106th Skywatcher

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1129
Registered: 06-10-2004
IP: Logged

The decision to go with a hub structure was made for several reasons. It was several years ago, so I might be misremembering some of the details, but from the best I can recall:

1. The hold takes place on a very small geographic area, compared to TSS taking place all over the Eighth.

2. The tier structure (complete all levels in a group and move on to the final level(s) of that group and then the next group) is a natural fit for blue doors in hub levels.

3. A hub structure gives more of a sense of the hold being a cohesive location, with the beginning, middle and end all being physically connected.

So given the use of hubs for the rest of the hold for good reason, that brings us to replacing the Fork of Infinity with a chapter select screen using the world map system. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it also wouldn't really add anything. It's just reinventing the wheel for the sake of including a world map. It's not like it's a particularly arduous hub to trek through anyway, almost all the staircases are in the same room.

Unless there's a case for it adding something substantial to the player experience that the current system doesn't that we overlooked.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Nuntar
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 4591
Registered: 02-20-2007
IP: Logged

World maps can't have intro texts, and the Fork of Infinity has a very important intro text, explaining that it doesn't really exist as a physical connector between these locations, but rather, when the player uses the Fork to revisit previous locations, Beethro is looking back through his memories. This is hugely important because in Chapter 5, Beethro is reunited with Halph but stuck in the Oystian Lowlands -- if he could easily return to Silent Woods at that point, he would just hop on the first boat and leave Oyst.

In addition to being a fast-travel hub, the Fork of Infinity contains a device to revisit previous interludes; the entrances to the post-conquer and postmastery levels; the inventory screen that shows which collectable items you have obtained; and an "instruction manual" room that teaches players new to DROD about save/restore, secrets, collectables, and so forth. We could replace some of this with map buttons, but then, again, there wouldn't be any explanation for the player of why they are able to click on buttons to go back to these particular levels.

All this said, the book is a very nice piece of art, and I hope it will find a home in another hold at some time!

____________________________
50th Skywatcher

Camwoodstock
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 115
Registered: 07-02-2014
IP: Logged

Nuntar wrote:
World maps can't have intro texts, and the Fork of Infinity has a very important intro text, explaining that it doesn't really exist as a physical connector between these locations, but rather, when the player uses the Fork to revisit previous locations, Beethro is looking back through his memories. This is hugely important because in Chapter 5, Beethro is reunited with Halph but stuck in the Oystian Lowlands -- if he could easily return to Silent Woods at that point, he would just hop on the first boat and leave Oyst.

In addition to being a fast-travel hub, the Fork of Infinity contains a device to revisit previous interludes; the entrances to the post-conquer and postmastery levels; the inventory screen that shows which collectable items you have obtained; and an "instruction manual" room that teaches players new to DROD about save/restore, secrets, collectables, and so forth. We could replace some of this with map buttons, but then, again, there wouldn't be any explanation for the player of why they are able to click on buttons to go back to these particular levels.

All this said, the book is a very nice piece of art, and I hope it will find a home in another hold at some time!

A bit of an odd idea but a possible solution to the intro text thing; make a level in the hold that's got the intro text, and upon actually loading the room, on turn 0, set an NPC to initialize and redirect to the world map. I dunno if that's worth the trouble, but that seems like it'd be a pretty easy solution to "giving a world map intro text".

____________________________
Camwoodstock - The Epic Blunder, Dugan's Best Janitor, Rooted Hold Runner, Lowest Point Watcher, and 132nd Skywatcher (and 13th Gel Authority)
Mastered all of GatEB, KDD 2.0, JtRH, and TCB! | Saw The Second Sky! (lots of secrets left!)

Her/him | & | Steam | Backloggery

averagemoe
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 487
Registered: 03-22-2012
IP: Logged

Well, that's... A solution to the intro text thing. And as for the inventory, well it's actually possible to put things on a world map that don't lead to any level. Set the type to "image only".

____________________________
There are two types of sheep in the world. Those who jump off a bridge when told to, and those who jump off a bridge when told not to. Don't be either.

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1129
Registered: 06-10-2004
IP: Logged

Both a world map and a fast travel hub are valid structural choices. However, the fast travel hub is built, scripted, and already in the hold. The map would have to be implemented and dozens of scripts throughout the hold changed to uncover map destinations instead of setting the fast travel hub's script flags, and another round of testing would be required to check that all the unlocks still work as expected. It's a pretty significant undertaking to add in a world map, and I'm not convinced it really adds anything of value to the experience that the existing hub doesn't already do.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

mauvebutterfly
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 720
Registered: 05-03-2015
IP: Logged

From the first post I assumed that this was a hypothetical to begin with. I'm definitely opposed to adding a world map at this point for the reasons that Pinnacle listed.

____________________________
106th Skywatcher

ErikH2000
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2794
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Pinnacle is defending against scope creep. I like it.

You don't add an extra side to the Great Pyramid when its 92% done!

(Not that a world map wouldn't be awesome.)

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)