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averagemoe
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icon A World Map for Entry Point (+2)  
So I thought, "What if the Fork of Infinity could be replaced with a World Map?"

Well, something of the like. I came up with a sort of alternate use of the feature. An image of a blank book, that the chapters would appear on as they're unlocked. And there's some extra empty space surrounding it for things like the Interlude levels and... whatever the Enigma Temple is.

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09-13-2020 at 04:27 AM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (+1)  
Some people prefer hub levels to world maps. I think it's a bit late to be making a change like this at this point, in any event.

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09-13-2020 at 08:02 AM
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (+6)  
Actually, you know what, you're on to something here. We could totally do this on a world map.

Click here to view the secret text


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09-13-2020 at 08:04 AM
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Pinnacle
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (+2)  
The decision to go with a hub structure was made for several reasons. It was several years ago, so I might be misremembering some of the details, but from the best I can recall:

1. The hold takes place on a very small geographic area, compared to TSS taking place all over the Eighth.

2. The tier structure (complete all levels in a group and move on to the final level(s) of that group and then the next group) is a natural fit for blue doors in hub levels.

3. A hub structure gives more of a sense of the hold being a cohesive location, with the beginning, middle and end all being physically connected.

So given the use of hubs for the rest of the hold for good reason, that brings us to replacing the Fork of Infinity with a chapter select screen using the world map system. It's not necessarily a bad idea, but it also wouldn't really add anything. It's just reinventing the wheel for the sake of including a world map. It's not like it's a particularly arduous hub to trek through anyway, almost all the staircases are in the same room.

Unless there's a case for it adding something substantial to the player experience that the current system doesn't that we overlooked.

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09-13-2020 at 04:29 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (+2)  
World maps can't have intro texts, and the Fork of Infinity has a very important intro text, explaining that it doesn't really exist as a physical connector between these locations, but rather, when the player uses the Fork to revisit previous locations, Beethro is looking back through his memories. This is hugely important because in Chapter 5, Beethro is reunited with Halph but stuck in the Oystian Lowlands -- if he could easily return to Silent Woods at that point, he would just hop on the first boat and leave Oyst.

In addition to being a fast-travel hub, the Fork of Infinity contains a device to revisit previous interludes; the entrances to the post-conquer and postmastery levels; the inventory screen that shows which collectable items you have obtained; and an "instruction manual" room that teaches players new to DROD about save/restore, secrets, collectables, and so forth. We could replace some of this with map buttons, but then, again, there wouldn't be any explanation for the player of why they are able to click on buttons to go back to these particular levels.

All this said, the book is a very nice piece of art, and I hope it will find a home in another hold at some time!

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09-13-2020 at 08:05 PM
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Camwoodstock
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (0)  
quote:
Nuntar wrote:
World maps can't have intro texts, and the Fork of Infinity has a very important intro text, explaining that it doesn't really exist as a physical connector between these locations, but rather, when the player uses the Fork to revisit previous locations, Beethro is looking back through his memories. This is hugely important because in Chapter 5, Beethro is reunited with Halph but stuck in the Oystian Lowlands -- if he could easily return to Silent Woods at that point, he would just hop on the first boat and leave Oyst.

In addition to being a fast-travel hub, the Fork of Infinity contains a device to revisit previous interludes; the entrances to the post-conquer and postmastery levels; the inventory screen that shows which collectable items you have obtained; and an "instruction manual" room that teaches players new to DROD about save/restore, secrets, collectables, and so forth. We could replace some of this with map buttons, but then, again, there wouldn't be any explanation for the player of why they are able to click on buttons to go back to these particular levels.

All this said, the book is a very nice piece of art, and I hope it will find a home in another hold at some time!


A bit of an odd idea but a possible solution to the intro text thing; make a level in the hold that's got the intro text, and upon actually loading the room, on turn 0, set an NPC to initialize and redirect to the world map. I dunno if that's worth the trouble, but that seems like it'd be a pretty easy solution to "giving a world map intro text".

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09-16-2020 at 04:17 PM
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averagemoe
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (+1)  
Well, that's... A solution to the intro text thing. And as for the inventory, well it's actually possible to put things on a world map that don't lead to any level. Set the type to "image only".

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09-16-2020 at 04:46 PM
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Pinnacle
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (+4)  
Both a world map and a fast travel hub are valid structural choices. However, the fast travel hub is built, scripted, and already in the hold. The map would have to be implemented and dozens of scripts throughout the hold changed to uncover map destinations instead of setting the fast travel hub's script flags, and another round of testing would be required to check that all the unlocks still work as expected. It's a pretty significant undertaking to add in a world map, and I'm not convinced it really adds anything of value to the experience that the existing hub doesn't already do.

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09-16-2020 at 10:22 PM
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mauvebutterfly
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (0)  
From the first post I assumed that this was a hypothetical to begin with. I'm definitely opposed to adding a world map at this point for the reasons that Pinnacle listed.

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09-16-2020 at 11:43 PM
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ErikH2000
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icon Re: A World Map for Entry Point (+2)  
Pinnacle is defending against scope creep. I like it.

You don't add an extra side to the Great Pyramid when its 92% done!

(Not that a world map wouldn't be awesome.)

-Erik

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09-17-2020 at 12:17 AM
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