Announcement: Why not try our official idea generator for inspiration when making puzzles?


Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (Salvage operation on an ancient project)
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Poster Message
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 676
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged

File: Another Xindaris Hold.hold (90.1 KB)
Downloaded 7 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (0)  
Shortly after I finished and published Xindaris' first hold, I began work on a "sequel" of sorts, with the same kind of format and some new interaction ideas to focus levels on. Work chugged along for a while on it, stalled, went off and on, and now it's almost entirely off.

What I'm attaching to this post is a partial hold with lots of rooms but also lots of missing pieces and incomplete rooms. What I'm hoping for is some help deciding what rooms and levels to sort of pull apart from the project and turn into their own thing, or possibly the good parts to take and scrap all the rest to have some big-ish single thing to publish. For the rooms that are to be kept and published somewhere, obviously various improvements can and should be made.

That all means that the rooms need testing and in some cases demo production. I'm going to try and lay out what I THINK is complete and isn't, but honestly for some of this I can't remember; that'll be in the secret below:

Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-06-2018 05:30 PM]
04-23-2018 at 09:44 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 676
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged

File: Another Xindaris Hold.demo (26.3 KB)
Downloaded 3 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (0)  
And here's a pack of demos that I DO have, for tester reference and solution help.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text

04-23-2018 at 09:45 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Dali
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 166
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (+2)  
Played through some rooms in the "Brain flicker" level, and I want to say that my brain got flicked a bit too.

Rooms I've completed:

Entrance: Classic fighting brained roaches, I could find a spot to kill roaches safely.

1 South: Nice room, just add some checkpoints.

1 West: Room scary at first but it was alright, good room also. Didn't try the challenge, but seems fun to try.

2 North 1 West: : A pretty weird room but enjoyable, and I could finish the room without opening the brain. I just had to manipulate roaches to make the press the platforms I wanted, then put a clone in a safe position before triggering the bomb.

2 North: Nice room, snakes are just so unpredictable but sometimes the brain helps a bit.

2 North 1 East: Fun room, not sure how can we use the brain flicking in this room, doesn't seem to give a significant difference.
Is it possible to kill all goblins without using the mimic? could be a challenge.

Rooms I didn't finish:

1 north 1 West: I know what to do, but I don't know how to do it. I'm always frustrated when facing rock golems in tight areas.

1 North 1 East: Many orbs + Maze = nightmare for me. I didn't "hard try" it, there must be a logic ofc, I just need some time and hard thinking.

1 North 2 East: A nice room, I just couldn't manage to manipulate the seep(s?) needed at the end. Add some checkpoints maybe?

1 East: Wow this room is soooo tough. I barely could kill one nest before being overwhelmed. Some hints would be nice.

[Last edited by Dali at 05-01-2018 01:50 PM]
05-01-2018 at 01:44 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 676
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (+1)  
Thank you very much for taking a look Dali!

2N1W: I'm almost certain I never really finished this room, it's supposed to be Bad for the player to go inside of the areas with roaches and bombs, and there are three orbs along the south there only one of which seems to actually do much of anything in the mazes.

1W: I think this is my favorite, honestly. The challenge requires some crazy juggling around and looks neat in demo.

2N1E: I think the only real difference is that far-off goblins will try harder to path to you while the brain is on, so certain movements are better made when it's off? I'm not totally sure I thought very hard about this one, it's just "throw 25 goblins at a wall and see what sticks".

1N1W: My solution at least involves a lot of making rock piles on top of stepping stone and then timing things out so that a golem becomes brained and paths around a pile in just the right way to push the stepping stones farther west. I used all but one golem to get to one of the orbs.

1N1E: This is fundamentally a horde room; I think the orbs are supposed to be mostly straightforward and largely are intended to serve as a reason the player has to move around and deal with the horde switching back and forth between brained and not.

1N2E: I don't know whether I intended the scroll at (13, 21) to be a dev scroll or a general hint for players. It's not even true until after a certain orb is pressed. Oh well. I can tell you that there's just one specific seep you need to leave alive, and that keeping it alive involves doing a certain thing twice, and pushing a seemingly irrelevant orb in between those two times.

1E: I was initially surprised you were having trouble because I seemed to remember this being one of the easiest rooms. And really, conceptually it is simple but the execution is a bit tricky. I think a good hint is that the shallow water is a double-edged sword, but if you're not using your end of it then you'll get overwhelmed very quickly.


For now, I'll get on adding a bunch of checkpoints to Flicker Brain rooms and update that into the first post.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-01-2018 05:34 PM]
05-01-2018 at 05:25 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Dali
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 166
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (0)  
Flicker Brain,

For 1E: I completely forgot to prevent skipper from spawning by hiding... *facepalm* I finished the room now, indeed it's a lot easier that way.

for 1N1W, I saw your demo, and I wasn't doing that at all, now i got the trick.

I'll keep trying the couple of rooms I couldn't finish.

I will continue testing the hold as I found some nice puzzles and ideas. I started playing the aqua flora level, pretty cool monster, I'll post soon when done with maybe other levels too.


05-01-2018 at 07:49 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 676
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged

File: AXH Flicker Brains 1N2E Victory.demo (2.7 KB)
Downloaded 0 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (0)  
For the record, the Flower enemy isn't my work, it's originally from a bonus level of TSS with permission for anyone who has TSS to use it in their holds. However, I think that I am the first to either discover or at least seriously use their particular interaction with shallow/deep water that the level is based on. It's not even for sure that said interaction was intentional to the original element, but in my level it's quite intentional.

Since I have reminded myself of the solution to the seep room I think I ought to be able to produce a demo for it and post that soon if you want to take a look. It is pretty tricky.

EDIT: Demo attached to this post now.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-02-2018 12:36 AM]
05-01-2018 at 08:37 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Insoluble
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 1351
Registered: 09-04-2014
IP: Logged

File: Another Xindaris Hold.demo (42.8 KB)
Downloaded 2 times.
License: Public Domain
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (+1)  
quote:
Xindaris wrote:
Time Slayer: Good rooms and/or nightmares.
To my knowledge this whole level is complete, except I should probably delete the blank room in 3S. But some of these rooms are really, really hard and possibly quite painful. I believe at this point I'm open to removing the ones that absolutely nobody will ever like.

I hate to say it, but that's probably the bulk of the level. This combo does not lend itself to enjoyable rooms. There are a lot of tokens on force arrows throughout the level, which can be pretty hard to read.

The Entrance was not bad, if a bit straightforward. It's nice in that it doesn't require blind manipulation at least.

In 1S2W: and 1S1W you can just kill the slayer right away. They are probably better off this way. Definitely more enjoyable than trying to fiddle with the slayer to do stuff.

1S: Was a fun room. Maybe didn't need the third chamber as at that point you're just repeating the same thing you've already done twice.

2S2E: Challenge: Don't use any time tokens. (Don't actually make this a challenge).

____________________________
Links to neat forum tools that I always have trouble finding:
Click here to view the secret text

05-02-2018 at 08:58 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 676
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (0)  
Thank you Insoluble!

Generally speaking, I made this hold before committing to "don't put tokens on arrows anymore" and there are several cases where it is impossible to change that for space-fitting or puzzle-timing reasons. I'll be trying to fix the ones I can, but in those cases where I can't I just have to say "well, the player can always right-click if they're not sure."

For 1S, I always felt that each of the part was a ramping-up in difficulty over the previous due to requiring more timeclones, and the last part having force arrows. If anything I'd remove the first part since it's the easiest, except that I like the idea of the room gently introducing its idea with fewer timeclones first and then requiring more.

I guess I shouldn't really be surprised that the "kill a lot of slayers" room is doable with no timeclone help at all.

I've uploaded a new version with fixes to 1S2W/1S1W because if I'm going to use rooms from this level at all then I want to use a version that can't just be trivialized by killing the slayer and pretending he doesn't exist.

Anyway, you might like 1S2E.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Xindaris at 05-02-2018 05:55 PM]
05-02-2018 at 05:52 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
Dali
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 166
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (+2)  
Aqua Flora level:

1S and 2S: Nice introduction puzzles. Just add a little checkpoint each.

1W: Mostly moving monsters through platforms over water, to reach the NW flora was pretty tough for me.

2W: Fun room! yea, 72 constructs at once, what a relief after killing them all! Their movement is so annoying sometimes.

1N 1W: Nice room too, I had luck when the guard went where I wanted him to go :p

1E: nice and tough room ! without checkpoints this room is a nightmare. I had to unlimited undo, and even with that I struggled a bit. So this one definitely needs checkpoints.

1N 1E: Fun room. Going for the 2 first Q roaches were challenging, and after that it's a lot easier.

2N 1E: nice moving monster room. Nothing much to say.

2N 2E: the first part of the room was cool, the second part was a bit messy to understand, but I finally i could finish it.

2N: really tough I couldn't do it. Had to see demo.

3N1E: very interesing use of the mud/gel baby properties, and I find it really challenging. I could move them quite far, but finally I had to see demo for that.

1S 1W: tough indeed, but really fun. May take a looot of time to correctly move monsters.

So overall the difficulty is around 7.5 , for some it's a 6 and for other tough rooms is 8/9, the puzzles were neat. some other more skilled players may suggest more things than me.

Going for fuselich now.


[Last edited by Dali at 05-04-2018 11:49 AM]
05-04-2018 at 11:48 AM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Dali
Level: Master Delver
Avatar
Rank Points: 166
Registered: 02-05-2005
IP: Logged
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (+1)  
Fuselich level:



Entrance: nice introduction room.

1S: suprisingly, this pretty small room that seems simple is finally pretty tough, until I find the trick:

Click here to view the secret text


1S 1E: Fun room, you were a bit generous by giving all these decoys :)

2S: Nice aumtlich movement in tight areas. It's more fun than handling golems. please checkpoints.

2S 1W: First platform was ok, but the second part was tricky to move the aumtlich. Nice room too, Checkpoints needed here also.

2S 1E: Another cool moving aumtlich room. Once again, Checkpoints.

3S 1E: A joke room, why not :P

1S1W: Ironically I struggled the second part of this room. It's not that obvious to spot the trick here. I think it's fine. A checkpoint for the second part.

3S1W: Ermm... Is this room possible ? I'm surely missing something, please hint me I don't know how to do this room.

Overall nice level and a 6.5 difficulty.







[Last edited by Dali at 05-05-2018 04:40 PM]
05-05-2018 at 04:39 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Send Email to User Show all user's posts This architect's holds Quote Reply
Xindaris
Level: Smitemaster
Avatar
Rank Points: 676
Registered: 06-13-2015
IP: Logged
icon Re: Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (0)  
I meant to warn you when you said you were doing Fuselich, the bottom row is really just some unfinished scribbles, if that. Don't worry about anything in the 3S row, it's slated to be gotten rid of, or possibly replaced with a real room if I get a good idea. Aside from that, it's the one I built most recently so of course it winds up with no demos or checkpoints! I'm going to attach an update to the first post with checkpoints added to the rooms they were missing in AF and to the "real" rooms of Fuselich. Hopefully you can tell me if they're in helpful places.

____________________________
109th Skywatcher

Here are some links to Things!
Click here to view the secret text

05-06-2018 at 05:29 PM
View Profile Send Private Message to User Show all user's posts High Scores This architect's holds Quote Reply
New Topic New Poll Post Reply
Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Another Xindaris Hold: Tearapart Help Request (Salvage operation on an ancient project)
Surf To:


Forum Rules:
Can I post a new topic? No
Can I reply? No
Can I read? Yes
HTML Enabled? No
UBBC Enabled? Yes
Words Filter Enable? No

Contact Us | CaravelGames.com

Powered by: tForum tForumHacks Edition b0.98.8
Originally created by Toan Huynh (Copyright © 2000)
Enhanced by the tForumHacks team and the Caravel team.