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Bent
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icon Floating Friendship Facility (+2)  
This one-level hold contains a little over twenty rooms that are all about Halph. Approximated difficulty is 6 to 8 brains, depending on the room. The level has an open layout with most rooms accessible from the get-go.

All kinds of feedback are appreciated, as are demos (even if you don't think you've broke anything). :)

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[Last edited by Bent at 04-01-2018 12:48 AM]
03-23-2018 at 08:11 PM
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Insoluble
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icon Re: Floating Friendship Facility (+1)  
I've only completed a third of this, but it definitely feels like it will get rated in the 7.5 to 8 brain level on average when it gets published. Most of these rooms are quite tricky. Even the first puzzle room (1N) was fairly difficult. There's nothing wrong with starting off with a difficult room, especially since it seems like the whole level is fairly difficult, but it's good to consider that the entrance is much closer to the 8 brain realm of the spectrum. The rainbow room (3N2E) is the only one that feels in the 5 to 6 brain range so far. It was nice to have a less difficult room as a breather and that room was particularly fun.

More than half of the rooms that I've played have been fun linchpin style puzzles so far. Only 1N1W and 1N1E felt like they were overly reliant on guessing Halph's path mapping. I brute forced those and suspect that's basically the only way to do them. The others have been satisfying though. I doubt I've done anything unintentional yet, but demo are attached in case you want them. I'll attempt to post more feedback once I've cleared most of the hold.

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03-24-2018 at 06:14 AM
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Bent
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Thanks again for your feedback Insoluble, it is much appreciated!

I agree that 1N1W and 1N1E aren't very good rooms, and relies somewhat on trial and error; at best they may give you some idea of how Halph's pathfinding works. I think they're pretty easy and straight forward though, and I'm not sure whether the hold would benefit from removing them or not. I'll consider what to do with them...

You solved every room in the intended way, so that's good. And it's always interesting to see how other people approach my rooms.

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[Last edited by Bent at 03-24-2018 03:10 PM]
03-24-2018 at 03:10 PM
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Insoluble
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icon Re: Floating Friendship Facility (+1)  
Okay. I've cleared all but three of the required rooms, but have hit a bit of a wall on those three. I have not tried any of the secret rooms yet and suspect that they are going to melt my brains. Demos are attached. I don't think I am doing anything unintended. I enjoyed playing this a lot! The puzzles are fairly tricky, but very satisfying. Most of the rooms are not super exact in execution, so once you figure out the concept of the room actually carrying it out is quite enjoyable.

3N: This is possibly my favorite room. The linchpin/ goal of the room is amazing! I understood fairly early on that I needed Halph to cycle endlessly, but it took me a while to find a way to make it happen. It is a tricky room, but completely fair though, because everything you need to do can be logically deduced. I love rooms like this that require the player to set up a mechanism and provides the player with some open ended resources with which to construct it. In this case you gave me just barely enough rock golems, but I think that's fine too. Giving more golems may have made things easier, but the room is very elegant as it is.
3N2E: This was a neat little room. It was one of the less difficult ones in the hold, and was also very unique looking. I had a lot of fun with it. It would probably be best to include a checkpoint, possibly at (18,25). If you want to, you could also include a scroll letting players that they may want to make sure alpha blending is on in this room to help them coordinate.
2N2W: This was one of the less difficult rooms (though by no means simple!) and was one of the first I completed. I almost wish it had been the first room I encountered. Very nice room that relies on careful thinking on how the Halph element works.
2N1W: This room looked intimidating, but it was fairly reasonable once I understood what it was asking me to do. It took me a few attempts before I found a configuration of decoys + mimic that would work.
2N: I put this one off for a bit. In the end I solved it more though experimentation than through carefully thinking about what would be optimal, but I can see that there is a secret room that will require me to think about this one more logically when I attempt it. Not a bad room, and I'm glad that this more forgiving version is the required one and that the other one is secret.
2N1E: This one is stumping me. I think I need to get Halph somewhere on the northern island (for instance, at (11,5)) when I bump the yellow door. But I have no idea how to accomplish this while still allowing him a path to get off the island. Am I on the right track at least?
2N2E: This room was a lot of fun. It felt like it was much more about rock giant and golem manipulation than it was about Halph, but it was actually a nice change of pace. It may be possible to do with one less golem, but I didn't bother to try. This was also one of the first rooms I completed, possibly because it was more about golems than Halph manipulation.
1N2W: This was a fun room. It was a bit more open ended than some of the other rooms, and it is nice that there is some flexibility in the solution. Very nice room.
1N1W: and 1N2W: These rooms are similar, and more execution oriented than other rooms in the level. I don't think that's necessarily a problem. It's fine to have a variety of room types. Ideally it would be nice if they were not the very next rooms you come across after the first puzzle room.
1N: This is the first impression players will have of the hold. It's a very nice puzzle, but definitely on the tricky side. It was not the first room I solved (I think it was 4th or 5th?). I played around with it a bit when I first came to it, but did not see one of the crucial steps so I ended up skipping it. There is nothing wrong with starting with a fairly difficult room, especially since the entire hold is pretty difficult. And since it is open ended, players can skip it and come back to it. The room was a great introduction to the hold though. The solution is clean and focused. The only minor gripe I can think of is that it is somewhat annoying to cross east-west through this room once it is cleared.
1N2E: Another room that was not too bad. The snake manipulation was reasonable here. Fun room. Possibly a checkpoint in the middle of the room would be nice.
1N3E: I thought I had this one, but then it turns out that Beethro won't summon Halph to open a door he bumps if there is a force arrow pointing the other way. I never knew this! Very interesting. It looks like I need to somehow stand on the arrow for 9 spawn cycles while preventing Halph from returning to that pressure plate. I need to kill the roach somehow, so it can't be locked in a perpetual back and forth alternating with Halph. Not sure what to do about this one honestly.
1W: Another very fun room. I'm glad that the execution was not overly precise and that I had a bit of flexibility with timing here. Once I figured out what needed to be done, it was not overly fiddly to make it happen.
1E: I'm lost on this one. I think maybe I am supposed to hit the plate at (24,24) in such a way that maybe Halph is returning somewhere and happens to wander over the plate at (17,16)? I have no idea how to make that work though.
2E: Okay, so I did one secret room. This one is fun though. I guess it was made a secret because it depends on move order? It is totally fair though, and I think this is a very reasonable room. I enjoyed it.

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03-27-2018 at 05:36 AM
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Bent
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icon Re: Floating Friendship Facility (0)  
Wow, that's a lot of feedback to take in! :D I'll watch your demos soon, and try my best to improve the hold based on your suggestions. But first, here's some tips for those rooms you're stuck on:

2N1E:
Click here to view the secret text


1N3E:
Click here to view the secret text


1E: This room is really more about slayers than Halph, and may be a tad unfair. If you think I should remove it (or make it secret) after having seen the solution, please let me know.
Click here to view the secret text


____________________________
Holds of mine that are currently in need of playtesting:
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Bent at 03-27-2018 05:13 PM]
03-27-2018 at 05:10 PM
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Bent
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icon Re: Floating Friendship Facility (0)  
Hold updated! Changes:
1E is replaced with a new room, as I didn't like the old one.
Checkpoints are added at the places Insoluble suggested, as well as a scroll in 2N2E.
1N1W is changed a bit.
1W: Insoluble solved this in a different way than I had intended. I didn't like the original solution so I changed the room to fit his solution instead.

I considered reorganizing the level so that some of the easier rooms are closer to the entrance, but realized that I would have to completely redesign some rooms to make it look all right. That would take a lot of time and potentially introduce unintended solutions, so I decided to leave the layout as it is for the time being.

There's still some rooms that I'm not sure that I am happy with, 1N1W and 1W in particular. I may change these in a future update.
quote:
Insoluble wrote: It may be possible to do with one less golem, but I didn't bother to try.
Actually both rock golem rooms (3N and 2N2E) contain one more rock golem than is needed, but I'm perfectly fine with that.
quote:
Insoluble wrote: I have not tried any of the secret rooms yet and suspect that they are going to melt my brains. [...] Okay, so I did one secret room. This one is fun though. I guess it was made a secret because it depends on move order?
It was partly because of move order, but mostly because I didn't think it fit in with the other rooms. As for the rest of the secret rooms, some of them are hard, but there's at least one which I think is easier than a lot of the required rooms.

____________________________
Holds of mine that are currently in need of playtesting:
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by Bent at 03-30-2018 01:11 AM]
03-28-2018 at 08:53 PM
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Bent
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icon Re: Floating Friendship Facility (0)  
Update:
* Both 1W and 1N1W are replaced with new rooms.
* Two secret rooms are added, turning the level into a lovely 6Χ4 rectangle.
* A couple of aesthetic improvements have been made in the Entrance, 2E and 2N2E, they should play more or less the same as before.

I'm feeling pretty happy with the hold now, and do not plan to add any more rooms. I think the new secret room at 3N3E may be a tad too easy, and would be interested in opinions on the matter. The new rooms, 1E, and every secret room except 2E, has not been playtested yet by other people than myself, and I will be thankful to anyone who does that.

____________________________
Holds of mine that are currently in need of playtesting:
Click here to view the secret text

04-01-2018 at 01:03 AM
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