Chaco wrote:

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×
I haven't finished playing the hold, but here's some highly general comments about many rooms together:

- There's generally a really high orb / pressure plate / yellow door count in most of the rooms. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it means that it takes some mental overhead to keep track of everything. In some rooms it might be nice to pair doors and orbs with colored lighting, or mark force arrows that can be turned off with different floor types.

- Similarly, pressure plates that are auto-fail states (that e.g. close doors to prevent exiting the room) should be marked, either with lighting or by making them multi-use. For example, the pressure plates at (12, 11) in 4N2E and (16, 16) in 1N1E could easily be made multi-use without changing anything about the puzzle.

- There seem to be several rooms that depend on the lemming's ability to:

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×trigger an orb by moving into it, even if it's on top of a wall.

Once you realize in one room that this is possible, many other rooms are suddenly a bit easier to solve than normal since you can immediately jump to that conclusion.

I'm not sure whether I'd want such orbs to be left as they are, or to be lowered onto normal floor as appropriate, to suggest that a lemming could move into that square. But, it's something to think about I guess.

- There's a strong indication that there's a secret room in 1W, but it's a bit unfair that you have to pick a random square to exit from 2W to 1W into there; there's been an unofficial unwritten rule that if there's no raft or solid ground on a room edge, then there's no way into the room beyond that edge. You could use a clue like a force arrow or a pair of bushes to suggest that that particular room edge square is special.

- The secret wall in 4N4W is nearly invisible since it's an interior corner. I think you could make the wall to the right of it also a secret wall to make it a bit easier to spot.

- Sometimes movement order is important; I'm thinking about rooms like 2N2E, 3N2E and 3N3W in particular. It might be polite to specifically point out the movement order in some of these rooms (and some unrelated rooms) to help remind the player ahead of time that it's going to matter.

[Post Deleted] Nuntar wrote:
There are more in 2N2W and 2E.

Red-XIII wrote: So, out of curiosity, how would you script it without changing mirrors location?

  Set var "Mirrors" = 0
Label loop
  If ... 
        Wait for item Mirror,18,13,18,13
     If ... 
           Wait for item Mirror,18,15,18,15
        Wait 0
        Go to loop
     If End 
  If End 
  Set var "Mirrors" = 1

Red-XIII wrote: In general, how do I script a challenge depending on 2 or more variables?

  Wait for clean room 
  If ... 
        Wait until var "Bent" = 0
     If ... 
           Wait for item Force arrow (east),17,26,17,26
        Challenge completed Gentryii ruler
     If End 
  If End 
  End 

blorx1 wrote:
I don't know when you plan to publish, but if you give me about a week (maybe just this weekend) I can probably get through this hold and give some commentary or at least a big pile of demos to catch some US's if any are left.

Edit: I definitely broke at least one room, so I can post stuff whenever or we can wait, since I play things pretty fast.

blorx1 wrote:
I hadn't quite realized how long this was, so I'm posting comments for what I've played right now so you have more time to fix stuff.

Here's some comments:

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×1N1W: I might be breaking this, if I didn't break it I'll try something else that I think might work.
2N: very sneaky
2W: I think the thing I did with the golem is sketchy, but maybe intended.
3W: Seems very execution heavy at first glance, which is a bit offputting, since the rest of the rooms haven't had such an issue
2N1W: Sister green doors don't seem terribly important to the room, just force me to wait slightly longer before parking the fegundo lemming
1N3W: Most of the odd stuff in this room isn't important if you don't do the challenge, it seems?
1N3W: Challenge scripting doesn't check if you can actually exit the room = broken. I think the solution would be to put a wait for player right at the end before the challenge is awarded.
1N3W: The intended solution for challenge is definitely a little fiddly to get right, which is a bit annoying, but I guess that's to be expected and it's fine for a challenge in a secret room.
2N3W: Getting to the secret took me quite a while. I wasted a lot of time trying to do something that wouldn't repeat, but I ended up finding a way to make a loop that works very quickly after realizing it was possible. Possibly broken since I didn't need the mirror.
1N4W: Yikes this looks disgusting. Actually wasn't that bad after I realized that the first door had to be stood on and then the room could be parsed fairly.
2N4W: Could you move some stuff around so that the solution from the secret entrance is significantly slower than entering normally. (I don't know if ww position matters, but I prefer to not have to mess with it.
3N4W: Felt easier than other loop making rooms, but that might just be because I spent so long on 2N3W.
3N5W: No challenge solution was really easy. Challenge soln wasn't too bad either. Didn't even need the baby lemming (but if I'd used him it would have saved me needing 3 of the 4 golems. Actually I only needed a bent lemming and the two kegs to solve).
4N4W: I'm not sure if I broke this. I felt like what I did was very cheesy, so it could easily be broken. If I didn't break the room, then I'm not super happy with the room, since it seems to rely more on a plate trick than any interesting timing, but I think my soln is necessary because the two timers are offset in such a way that no traditional solution would work. I take some of that back. My cheesy solution still required some very clever mazery to kill the lemming. If this is intended, I'm somewhat ok with it, but I'd rather the timer be clearer about what is actually required, since the room feels like more of a loop room than anything else.

General: beach arrows don't always show up very well, maybe consider using different colored floors underneath arrows.

blorx1 wrote:
I could probably write a fix for the scripted challenge in 1N3W.

Unfortunately the way Nuntar implemented the original challenge without the additional check isn't what I'd do and I don't think it'd be foolproof to just add a wait for player at 37,11 because his implementation isn't word for word equivalent to the scroll and so it can be tricked pretty easily.

I'll post something with a fix later tonight, but for now here's the demo that broke the challenge (if it didn't show up in my demo pack). Note that I step on the bridge and then get the challenge despite being in a situation where I wouldn't be able to leave the room.

Dragon Fogel wrote:
No, challenges will appear on the list even if you don't exit the room afterwards. In fact, there's at least one challenge I know of that you can't exit the room after getting.

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×"I Wanna Be The Guy" in TCB 5.0, if anyone's wondering.

Red-XIII wrote:
7N1W: I found out this quirk while building this room and I think it's fascinating, but I also know that this can be considered a bug, so I'm definitely willing to change it, I just wanted to wait for someone to find it by itself to see its reaction.