blorx1
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If puff babies are pushed onto tarstuff mothers, they kill the mother. This is fine, but is kind of inconsistent since fluff doesn't kill any other creatures that it doesn't target.

What is strange is that if the puff kills a mother, it can leave a 1x1 square of tarstuff, which is hopefully a bug.

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mrimer
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blorx1 wrote:
If puff babies are pushed onto tarstuff mothers, they kill the mother. This is fine, but is kind of inconsistent since fluff doesn't kill any other creatures that it doesn't target.

I'm pretty sure that puffs kill anything they're pushed onto, so I don't think this is inconsistent.

What is strange is that if the puff kills a mother, it can leave a 1x1 square of tarstuff, which is hopefully a bug.

Hmm...yes, this tarstuff should break down at this point. Is this occurring in the latest 5.0.1 patch?

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blorx1
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File: Tarstuff and Fluff.hold (863 bytes)
Downloaded 40 times.
License: Public Domain

I just ran the patch and it still seems to occur in the following hold.

As for killing tar mothers: My issue is that puffs do not target mothers (the same way they don't target seep and golems etc.). Puffs are incapable of killing any of those other creatures but they can kill mothers, which is inconsistent with the targeting equals killing behavior that seems to exist.

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If you need to think outside of the box, then you didn't build a good enough box.

mrimer
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In 5.0.1.6046, I've fixed things so when a tarstuff mother is killed by a fluff baby, unstable tarstuff that was under the mother will be destroyed.

TFMurphy and other devs, what do you think about changing puffs to target tarstuff mothers?

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 07-20-2014 12:38 AM]

blorx1
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My original thought was to have puffs not kill mothers (being consistent with not killing seep when pushed into a wall).
Either the killing or targeting could be changed and it would be consistent. That being said it has some puzzle potential with killing + targeting. It would be a bit odd since it would probably make it seem legal to enter some tarstuff squares, but it's fine with me either way.

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TFMurphy
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What fluff are drawn to, and what they can actually kill, are not necessarily the same thing. As one example, they're not drawn towards Fegundo Ashes, but are attracted to Fegundos. They can kill both upon colliding with them though.

The idea is mostly that puffs are attracted to some property of life that most organisms have, but some do not. They definitely aren't attracted to Rock Golems, Constructs or Gentryii, due to their inherent natures (whatever manner of living they hold). They can't detect Seep either.

However, when a puff explodes, it's a reaction that can harm things that the puff wasn't even trying to get close to. Very few organisms are immune to this... Rock Golems, Constructs and Gentryii just happen to be among the few types of monsters that can withstand the attack. So can Seep, now that I look -- that one might be more debatable, but maybe we were thinking that it was similar enough to Fluff that it also had a kind of immunity to that kind of attack. But it wouldn't be a problem to remove that immunity from Seep. We could also argue that Fluff can deactivate a Construct, but not destroy its corpse -- I don't think that would affect any TSS rooms.

In any case, I'm fine with fluff explosions killing Tarstuff mothers, but not being able to track them. I think the use of Fluff by pushing them onto mothers would be highly useful, especially if we guarantee that it does not destroy the underlying tar (providing it's still stable). On the flipside, I don't think I'd like fluff being able to track mothers but end up just butting up against them unable to actually kill them. (Fun fact: fluff *can* move over and kill Tarstuff Mothers that do not start on Tar, but obviously you only have until the first tar growth to do anything with that.)

I suppose a better question might be whether tarstuff babies should be trackable or not -- on reflection, it's difficult to argue that they shouldn't be able to track tar mothers, but still want to be best friends with tar babies. (Though they should still destroy the babies if they happen to intersect, of course.)

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[Last edited by TFMurphy at 07-20-2014 02:06 AM]