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Red-XIII
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File: Darkness of the unknown.hold (42.7 KB)
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icon Darkness of the Unknown (+5)  
Click here to view the secret text


EDIT:
Hold promoted, here it is!
http://forum.caravelgames.com/viewtopic.php?TopicID=38964

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 10-15-2014 10:59 PM : Hold promoted]
08-09-2013 at 08:40 PM
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adS
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
My first impression: An excellent hold. Some ideas I haven't seen before. Apparently you have tried to implement your ideas with as few monsters as possible. I really like such minimalist rooms.
So far, I have conquered a few rooms only and I give it a difficulty of 5.5 - 6. Maybe I will raise it later :)


In most holds the placement of check marks is frustrating or worse. Here it is excellent.


The shore

Entrance: Of course, this is trivial.
What is the purpose of the platform? Just a joke?

1N: A room for optimizers :)

Downward

1W: A good, easy room. Perhaps you want to remove the token.

1S: Very nice :) Probably not easy if you haven't seen similar ideas before. I think most rooms are to difficult for beginners.

1N: Excellent! My first impression was "Are you kidding?"

2E: Tricky. I really enjoyed the room.

1S1E: It was a bit tricky to enter this secret room - as you said :)

1N1E: Easier than it looks :)

1N2E: Easier than most other rooms. Once again a room for optimizers.

1E: I have no idea how to conquer this room.


adS

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08-10-2013 at 10:58 PM
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da rogu3
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
I agree with adS - everything I've completed so far (I'm currently at floor 2) has been generally excellent.

I found the rooms in The shore a bit tedious, however. Also 1E of floor 1 is a bit messy and slightly confusing at first.

The difficulty seems fine - I'd give the first floor 4 brains. I see no problem at all with being forced to restore to get secrets - all the ones in this hold are fine as they are.

I'll probably post more comments when I've played more of the hold.
08-10-2013 at 11:54 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (0)  
Thanks both of you for the comments :)

The Shore: Maybe I could make them a little easier so that they are not too tedious. The platform in the entrance for now it serves no purpose but maybe later I'll use some scripts and use it to end the hold but it's just an idea for now.

Downward:
1W: I think I'll leave the token, mainly because the difficulty of the room is the same but without the token the room could be more tedious IMO.
1E: Little hint
Click here to view the secret text

For "da rogu3" do you think I should make this more "linear" or the mess you mentioned is acceptable?

I'm glad you're enjoying this, thanks :)

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 08-11-2013 09:09 AM]
08-11-2013 at 12:36 AM
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da rogu3
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (0)  
Red-XIII wrote:
For "da rogu3" do you think I should make this more "linear" or the mess you mentioned is acceptable?
I'm confused, are you talking about the whole level (which is perfectly fine), or the room 1E which was what I was referring to? To be more specific, my problem with 1E is that
Click here to view the secret text

Also for The shore: 1N, I wouldn't call it difficult or anything, but stashing the roaches under each puddle and bringing each roach to the top one by one felt a bit repetitive (in my opinion).

[Last edited by da rogu3 at 08-11-2013 01:13 AM]
08-11-2013 at 01:08 AM
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Red-XIII
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I was talking about 1E, thanks for the explanation. I can see your point, I'll have a look at it.

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08-11-2013 at 09:14 AM
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da rogu3
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
Done all of floor 2 except 2S (I can't figure out how to lure the roach onto the hot tile at the end - can I have a hint?).

All pretty fun rooms, especially 1W and 2S1W. I would say the level is noticeably harder than floor 1, roughly 5.5 - 6 brains.

I'm not sure the secret room worked as intended:
Click here to view the secret text
Also, what is the purpose of the wubbas in 1S?

Edit: And also, don't you think 3S is a bit trivial?

[Last edited by da rogu3 at 08-11-2013 08:03 PM]
08-11-2013 at 06:36 PM
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Red-XIII
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Ok it looks like there are some US, here's what I had in mind for floor 2:

1S: The wubbas are the intended way to reach the secret room so I guess you left some golems alive right? I think I'll fix this.
3S: You're probably right, I'll change it for sure.
2S:
Click here to view the secret text

Secret room: Totally unintened, I can't believe I didn't thought about that, I'll fix this too in the next update thanks!



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08-11-2013 at 08:44 PM
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da rogu3
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (0)  
Red-XIII wrote:
2S:
Click here to view the secret text
Click here to view the secret text

08-11-2013 at 09:35 PM
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larrymurk
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (0)  
fl 2:2s, I'm in the same boat as da ragu3.
If you made 16,17 a hot tile I can solve the room:)
08-11-2013 at 09:54 PM
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Red-XIII
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Floor 2:
Gorsh I'm very sorry this was one of the first room I built but then I changed it and didn't realized that now it's not possible anymore; but I immediately uploaded a new version where now it's fixed and the room is possible (though it's easier).
I also created a new 3S and fixed the US in 1S. The secret room still needs to be fixed.

I also modified a little "The shore 1N" and removed an EE in Downward 1E.

Sorry again.

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08-11-2013 at 10:03 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
Hello again.

Sorry it took a while but I've been quite busy in this weeks but I managed to complete Floor 4 and to build half of Floor 5. Sadly I still didn't fixed the US in the secret room of Floor 2.
Also, Floor 8 is now accesible from the hold.

The latest version will always be on the first message of the topic.

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08-31-2013 at 10:43 PM
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Red-XIII
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Back again! I finished Floor 5, fixed the unintended solution in Floor 2 "2S1E" and built (for now) only the entrance of Floor 6.
I'll post another update as soon as possible :)

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09-27-2013 at 06:04 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+2)  
Just had a look at this. I really like it so far -- every room is a puzzle that makes you think and not just wade in. "The shore" Entrance is a nice easy starter, then 1N is a satisfying first puzzle room because it's not as trivial as you expect when you first see it.

I've explored Floor 1 and played all the accessible rooms, so far solved 1W (some nice manipulation tricks) and 1N (excellent ingenious room). I have to say, this is already towards the high end of difficulty -- I'd give this level a 7, don't know whether it will get harder from here.

Spelling and grammar edits:

Hold description: "Beethro shipwrecked" should be "Beethro was shipwrecked"
"arrived to an unknown island" should be "arrived at" or "arrived on" or "landed on"
Floor 1 intro: "nevertheless he never took his guard low" should be "but he never let his guard down"

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09-27-2013 at 07:17 PM
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Red-XIII
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I'm really glad you like it so far, thanks for playing!

Also, thank you very much for telling me grammar mistakes, my lexicon is decent but I'm not really good to use it properly. I'll fix all the grammar mistakes in the next update.

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09-27-2013 at 08:08 PM
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Lucky Luc
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I recently started to seriously play this hold, and I think it's really, really good! The puzzles are a lot of fun.

I've played through the first two levels and most of level 3 so far, where I'm currently stuck on one room. I think the difficulty curve is pretty good so far.

I don't think I did anything unintended so far (except for level 2 secret), but just in case I've attached my demos so far.

As for level 3, I'm stuck on 1S. Here's what I've figured so far (please tell me if I'm wrong somewhere
Click here to view the secret text


Lukas :)
10-04-2013 at 05:08 PM
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Red-XIII
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Lucky Luc wrote:
I don't think I did anything unintended so far (except for level 2 secret), but just in case I've attached my demos so far.

As for level 3, I'm stuck on 1S. Here's what I've figured so far (please tell me if I'm wrong somewhere
Click here to view the secret text


Lukas :)

I'm glad you're enjoying it :)
About the US, maybe you forgot to attach the file, I'm very curious of how you did it.

About Floor 3 1S:
Click here to view the secret text


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10-04-2013 at 05:31 PM
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Lucky Luc
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File: Darkness of the unknown.demo (14.9 KB)
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
Ugh, how stupid of me (twice). Solved 1S now, missed the tunnels, that's pretty clever actually, but I'm stuck because 2S2E is marked required.

Sorry about the attachment. This time I'll add it. I only meant the room that was already broken, so I don't know if there's much new for you.
10-04-2013 at 06:05 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
How stupid of me too to mark that room required ^^' sorry for that, fixed it now along with some other stuff.

Thank you very much for your demos! You found lots of US and many of them are pretty neat (like floor2 2S1W) so I didn't changed them all, here's the rooms I changed:

Floor1 1S: Can't believe I missed this, should be fixed now
Floor 2 secret room: I forced a lot the intended solution, hope it's still a funny room.
Floor3 1S1E: I had no idea it was possible to manipulate the goblin like that, the intended solution is way more easier but it involves going into the EE's alcove only once so I fixed it.

Other updates:
Floor 6 now has 1E and 1W
Fixed grammar mistakes found by Nuntar

EDIT: To be fair also Floor2 2S is a little unintended so I'll change it next time.

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 10-04-2013 08:31 PM]
10-04-2013 at 07:21 PM
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Lucky Luc
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
Another level down :)

The difficulty curve still seems nice to me and the level was quite enjoyable again (I especially liked the pre-secret-room sequence), but there are a few issues with some of the rooms (see attached demos):
1W: Definitely broken.
1N1E: Seemed almost ridiculously simple for how complicated it looked. Broken?
1S: This is the first room in the entire hold that I didn't really like. It just seemed like complete trial-and-error and not as good as a puzzle as most of the other rooms are. It's not a bad room, just not as good as the rest of the hold in my opinion.
I might have done a few more unintended things, but I'm not sure. You should probably just watch the other demos, too ;)

The other fixes all seem to work well, though I have a proposal for level 2 secret:
Click here to view the secret text

10-05-2013 at 10:40 PM
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Red-XIII
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Sorry for late reply but I had no chance to fix until now.
Anyway, I'm afraid you forgot again to attach your demo files though I tried to find the US you mentioned but I didn't succeded.
I also didn't fully understand your hint about floor 2 secret room but you actually gave me an idea to fix the solution even better, so thanks!

Detailed update:

Floor 2 secret room should be fixed
Floor 4 1S totally modified, thanks for your critic! Now it has at least 3 different solution but I can't decide which is best
Floor 5 2S1E: Fixed an US I found some weeks ago.

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10-11-2013 at 07:27 PM
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Lucky Luc
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File: Darkness of the unknown demos 2.demo (13.4 KB)
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+2)  
:facepalm:

Haven't tried the new version yet, but here are the demos. I think I broke a large number of rooms in level 5, too. Not quite finished that one yet.

EDIT: Okay, just had a look at the changed rooms. Level 2 secret looks fine now. Level 4 1S is pretty neat, but you can break it by
Click here to view the secret text
Not sure what you changed in Level 5 2S1E. My old solution still seems to work, but I don't think that was unintended, anyway.

[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 10-14-2013 10:30 PM]
10-13-2013 at 07:12 PM
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Red-XIII
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Hello again! Once again, sorry it took a while to next update but I really have no free time and it will be like this for some months.
This is what I did in this update:

US fixed
Floor 2: 2S
Floor 4: 1W, 1S (though I decided to leave all three solutions available) and 1N1E.
Floor 5: 1W. About 2S1E I don't know what you did, the demo is corrupted because it says that has been recorded with another version of the hold so I'm not sure what you did there.

I also completed Floor 6: 1S

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10-27-2013 at 10:06 AM
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Red-XIII
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*BUMP*

Hello again everyone, I can't believe 6 months passed but finally here I am. I really hope to give the next update as soon as possible but meanwhile here's what's new:

- Floor 6 completed
- I improved a bit the story (though I'm afraid there are English mistakes)
- All US should be fixed.

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05-04-2014 at 03:18 PM
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Red-XIII
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And back again! It's been a while but after playing TSS my inspiration came back and I was able to continue this (it will remain a hold for GaTEB), and almost finish it.
What's new:

Floor 6 - 3S1W: Replaced the EE with an aumtlich to prevent some US

Floor 7: Almost completed
Story: Almost completed (the mastery floor will finish it)

Last but not least, I wrote a lot in this hold and though floor 8 still remains I'd like to know if someone could check all the grammar mistakes I made until now and send them by .txt or .doc or any way you want :)



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07-30-2014 at 06:11 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+2)  
The shore intro text: Suddently -> Suddenly; catched -> caught; an entrance -> the entrance

In general, it's conventional not to put quote marks around spoken lines, because it's clear from the text boxes who is speaking.

The shore Entrance: No capital letter on "it'll".

Floor 1 intro text: could have costed it's life -> could have cost him his life. Remove space after open quote mark.

I suggest "Good thing" rather than "Fortunately", as being more in keeping with the register of Beethro's speech.

Floor 2 intro text: more and more dark -> darker and darker

Floor 3 intro text: heared -> heard; into -> on the banks of

Floor 3 1S2E: even water evaporated -> even the water has evaporated

Floor 4 intro text: pretty hotter -> pretty hot

Floor 4 Entrance: seems -> seem; here recently -> recent

Floor 5 intro text: How could it be possible that the vegetation and mud was so dense down there?

Floor 5 2N1W: question mark

Floor 6 intro text: into -> in; either -> as well

Floor 6 4S: I shipwrecked -> I was shipwrecked

Floor 7 2S: What is going in on? -> What is going on?; build -> built; conquer -> conquered; altough -> although. Full stop after "is there too".

Floor 8 intro text: It took ages for Beethro. Full stop after "dungeon".

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07-30-2014 at 10:22 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (0)  
Hello again, I'm proud to say that the hold is finally complete!

Now only playtesting floor 6, 7 and 8 remains plus checking for grammar mistakes on floor 8, any help is appreciated.

I also have a question for Nuntar, why do you want a full stop after "dungeon" in the floor 8 intro text?

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08-12-2014 at 02:42 PM
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Nuntar
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+1)  
I promise I'll try my best to find time to have another go at this hold soon -- I've been busy lately replaying the main holds. I have managed to get further with Level 1 than last time I tried :)

Red-XIII wrote: I also have a question for Nuntar, why do you want a full stop after "dungeon" in the floor 8 intro text?
For reference, here's the text:

It took ages to for Beethro to descend the stairs, so he realized that this should have been the lowest floor of the dungeon, maybe the people captured by the league of shadows were there.

There is a natural break between the second and third clauses. One is something Beethro realises, and the "maybe" clause is what follows from it. You could express this by using "and" or "so" or a semicolon, or a full stop if you wanted a heavier break, which would add more emphasis to the final clause. Perhaps using "and" is the best option.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 08-12-2014 03:26 PM]
08-12-2014 at 03:26 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+2)  
Back again!

Here's a tiny but necessary update, this might be the final version (only credit scrolls needs to be written).

- Fixed Floor 7 The entrance and changed the room style of the level.
- Modified a bit the layout to enter the secret room to prevent some US.
- Added lots of checkpoints in all levels.
- Modified a bit Floor 8 1N1E.

What needs to be done:

- Playtesting floor 6, 7 and 8.
- Checking for grammar mistakes in floor 8.

Any help is appreciated.

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 08-30-2014 11:22 AM]
08-30-2014 at 11:20 AM
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kieranmillar
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icon Re: Darkness of the Unknown (+2)  
I gave this a shot. I wanted to start it from the beginning and have managed to beat floor 1. According to the end of level stats it took me just over an hour and a half.

Overall I'd say this level is very challenging but each room was smart and I was impressed.

I was on the lookout for unintended solutions but the rooms seem very solid, probably because they are so minimally designed.

Some room specific comments for level 1, in the order I beat them:
Click here to view the secret text


[Last edited by kieranmillar at 08-30-2014 09:31 PM]
08-30-2014 at 09:29 PM
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