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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Annie's Half-Finished Hold (A couple of (in the sense of two) themed levels and pop music references)
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Lucky Luc
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icon Annie's Half-Finished Hold (+3)  
Uhh, maybe I should wait until at least one of my other holds is fully tested and finished before uploading another one, but I couldn't resist. I thought it might be fun to do some themed levels, though I have only finished one so far.

I'm trying to create medium-difficulty mostly lynchpinny puzzles this time. I should warn you, though: The level there is currently is ratllesnake-based, and I know not everybody likes snakes as much as I do. I've tried to keep the number of movement preference puzzles small, but I couldn't resist to create a few.

Hope you enjoy the rooms so far :)

EDIT: Updated hold file, currently RC2.

[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 06-23-2016 09:17 PM]
02-01-2013 at 07:24 PM
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Red-XIII
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Hello I recently started playing this hold and I like all rooms but the ones where you need extreme preference movements :P
Here's some comments:
1E: Nice one I liked it!
1N2E / 2N2E: Not my favourites but not so bad.
2N: It looked hard and boring but it was funny and rather easy, this is the preference puzzle I like
3N1E: I must admit, I'm able to make the snake unbrained but I can't kill him, any hints?
3N: I'm unsure about this one, the speed potion zone is useful only to drop red door, then I can simply activate the pressure plate, go North and lure the roach on the force Arrow and then kill her and the snake, is this intended?
2N1W / 1N1W: Not too hard but enjoable.
3N1W: Nice and hard room.
1N: Urgh, sorry I definitely didn't like it.
1W: I'm pretty sure I broke it, I can simply use the mimic to blow up the bomb and then escape with my sword back. Otherwise I really like the intended way!
Also, I really liked the artwork, nice one!

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02-23-2013 at 02:37 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Hi,

thanks for your feedback! :) Glad you liked most of it so far. I've updated the hold to incorporate some of your comments.

You definitely broke 1W, but I think I fixed it now. 3N is also broken, I somehow missed you could be there in time. I think it's fixed now, too. By the way, you don't necessarily have to use the speed potion for anything else than dropping the red door, but it's helpful for manipulating the snake (you'll see once you solve it the intended way ;) ).

3N1E: Hm, not sure how to give a hint here without giving too much away. Making the snake unbrained is definitely the right idea, but maybe you're doing it in the wrong spot? If you find the right one, the rest should basically fall into place.

I'm a little surprised you found 3N1W hard; I thought it would be one of the easiest. In contrast to that, I thought 2N would be a rather tricky one. Just to make sure I didn't miss anything,
Click here to view the secret text

1N: Yeah, I noticed this one was a bit annoying during testing, but I still liked the idea. I tried to make it a bit better now by adding a speed potion, I hope this works. If not, I might have to replace the room.

I've also started working on a second level, but I only managed to finish 4 rooms so far. Please tell me what you think!
02-23-2013 at 07:25 PM
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Red-XIII
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icon Re: Annie's Hold (0)  
Lucky Luc wrote:
I thought 2N would be a rather tricky one. Just to make sure I didn't miss anything,
Click here to view the secret text

I've also started working on a second level, but I only managed to finish 4 rooms so far. Please tell me what you think!

I'm attaching a zip file with 3 demos, here's why:
2N: No that wasn't necessary, that's one of the demo.
3N: Should be fixed now.
1W: There's another US :P it's in the demos package.

About level 2 I attached a demo of 2N1E since I'm not 100% sure it's intended, but if is intended, man you rock that's amazing.
1N1E: I'm literally missing something, is it possible to create a dead end with that shape of mud without leaving babies?
1N1W: Tough room but I liked it, these are the kind of movement preference I like most.
1N: I'm sure I have to let mud grow twice to kill the EE but I can't leave an empty square in the mud mother zone.
Also, that's another amazing artwork :)
I'm really sorry for not be able to complete all the rooms but this is not an easy hold, at least for me.

EDIT: In level 2 1N1W a checkpoint inside the mud zone would be helpful.

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[Last edited by Red-XIII at 02-23-2013 09:45 PM]
02-23-2013 at 09:32 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Oh, those are some interessting solutions! Here are some comments, I'll upload a new version once I've got everything figured out.

ASitD:
2N: Hm, I'm unsure about this one, it seems to trivialize the puzzle a bit too much, but I'm not yet sure how to fix this. Might have to move some stuff there.
1W: While this is a pretty clever way to sneak past the bombs, it completely leaves out the main puzzles. Luckily I think I know how to fix it, so that will be updated once I have the other stuff figured out as well.

AWitR:
2N1E: Nope, that's not really intended, I think I'll fix that, cause it kind of corrupts the original idea. I'll keep the trick in mind, though, maybe I can include it in another room.
1N1W: Sure, I can add as many checkpoints as you want ;) . The intended solution left the mud shape pretty intact, though, so I'm slightly curious what you did there. I might well leave it in if it's not too trivial.
1N: Yup, that's what you're supposed to do. It's actually a variation of a trick that's been used several times before; I've especially seen it in quite a few of Larry Murk's brillant holds.
1N1E: Yes, that's possible, too, and one of the probably few things that are harder to do with mud than with other tarstuff. The only way to achieve this is by splitting the mud into two portions.

And I'm definitely very thankful for your feedback, even if you can't solve all of the rooms. I also don't mind having some slightly more tricky puzzles in here. Just tell me if you think anything is too cruel (like ASitD:1N for example).
02-24-2013 at 11:06 AM
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blorx1
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icon Re: Annie's Hold (+2)  
Ok, I've played through and cleared every room, though since I wasn't making comments as I went, I'm going from memory here.
aSitD:The level as a whole could have used a grid, since snakes are hard to deal with when one only has a solid floor tile.
Click here to view the secret text

aWitR
Click here to view the secret text


I can post all of my demos for this hold if needed. Also, If you really need somebody to test your other holds, I can do that too, though I was hoping to save them for after they were promoted.

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02-26-2013 at 06:29 AM
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Lucky Luc
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Thanks for the feedback!

I've found ways to fix ASitD 1W and 2N as well as AWitR 2N1E, all of the updated rooms will be in the next version.

ASitD:
You have a good point about the grid. I'm not yet sure what's the best way to deal with this yet, though. I have to think something up.

1N: Hm, you mean to make the trick less obvious? This might work. I'll play with that a bit.

If it's not too much trouble, I'd like to see your demos of 3N and 3N1E. 3N is definitely not how I intended it to be solved, but it might be an interessting enough side solution to be left in. Also, I'm not sure why you'd like to have a grid for 3N1E, as the intended solution does not at all rely on movement preference. Again, if the solution is interessting enough, I'll probably keep it.

Really glad you've liked the rooms in AWitR so far. I found it harder than I thought to come up with mud / shallow water puzzles, but I hope to have some more ideas in the near future.

I totally understand what you say about testing my other holds; I kind of share that feeling concerning other holds on the Architecture board (for example I really should play "A World in Miniature" again, I haven't done this in a while :blush ). If you find the time and will to do so, I'd be happy of course, but I can understand if not. I'm still hopeful they're not completely abandoned yet ;) .
02-26-2013 at 06:35 PM
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blorx1
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File: Annies Hold Demos Blorx1.demo (9.9 KB)
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icon Re: Annie's Hold (0)  
I just decided to post all of my demos, since you may appreciate using them yo see other rooms. For most of the rooms with obvious unintended solutions, I haven't gotten around to playing it the intended way.

I was actually pretty sure I did 3N1E the right way, until you told me otherwise, since your hint seems to suggest a similar trick.
I also think you should watch demos for any rooms that I've said have unintended solutions, since I broke at least one of them in a different way than Red.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 02-27-2013 03:50 AM]
02-27-2013 at 02:37 AM
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Lucky Luc
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New version posted.

Ah, thanks, yes, those demos were quite interessting. In fact, my fix for 1W wouldn't have worked, so I had to come up with a new one. I hope this works now.

3N: Okay, this is kind of interessting... This solution doesn't seem to be simpler than mine, so I guess I'll keep it, unless you say you didn't enjoy it at all. What I've intended:
Click here to view the secret text

3N1E: This is so unintended but also so cool! I'll definitely keep that one. Here is what I've actually intended:
Click here to view the secret text

I've added one new room to AWitR (2N1W) that I hope is relatively interessting. Also, I forgot to ask: I can move the conquer token in 1S if you want to, but is it really necessary? Isn't the only thing that counts for optimizing the total move count? If I got that wrong I'll change it of course. (Your solution is by the way also a little different from mine, but it's close enough)
02-27-2013 at 08:04 PM
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blorx1
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I've played through all the changed rooms, and I like all the changes. I don't think that any of the rooms can be broken in their current states, which is good. About the new room, I think it is interesting, without being too difficult.

About conquer tokens and optimizing, the number used for high scores is the move count upon stepping on the first conquer token, which is useful in some ways, but seems arbitrary in others. Either way, the conquer token should be moved.

EDIT: For 3N in ASitD, I think your solution fits the room much more than mine, so I would recommend enforcing yours. Not that mine was unfun, but I prefer yours much more.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 02-28-2013 12:33 AM]
02-28-2013 at 12:23 AM
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Lucky Luc
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ASitD 3N: You might be right. The fix seems to be simple too, so I guess I'll fix that for the next version.

AWitR 1S: Okay, thanks, I didn't know that. Strange. Token will be moved.

I totally forgot to mention; I've tried two different grids for ASitD now (3N1W and 2N1W as well as 1N). I think I'd personally prefer the one with the lights, but the downside is that it requires alpha blending. What do you guys think?
02-28-2013 at 10:17 AM
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Lucky Luc
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Finally had some time to do architecture again :) The second level is now complete, and that seems to be enough of a milestone to post a new version. Let's see how many unintendes solutions you'll find this time :P

I've also changed the grid in ASitD:1N. I personally like that variant quite a bit, but I won't apply it to the entire level until someone else approves of it, because it's gonna be a gobbin' lot of work...
09-10-2013 at 05:10 PM
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blorx1
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icon Re: Annie's Hold (+1)  
And I'm done playing through the new rooms. I've got a demo for each, as usual.

For the new rooms:
Click here to view the secret text


As for 1N's new grid style, I think it looks perfectly fine in game, though I was about to complain about how bright it looked in the editor.

Oh, and since you got c-net again, you should join the chat, occasionally people say cool things.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 09-11-2013 02:34 AM]
09-11-2013 at 02:33 AM
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Lucky Luc
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Once again, thanks a lot! 3 of 6, well, could be worse. Your demo for 1E isn't working, though (it's only 1 move).

Click here to view the secret text
blorx1 wrote: Oh, and since you got c-net again, you should join the chat, occasionally people say cool things.
Yeah, I should probably do that now and then. Let's see if I can figure out how it works ;)
09-11-2013 at 10:27 AM
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blorx1
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Eh, it's easier just not to post my demo for 1E, since it's a pretty simple demo. I just
Click here to view the secret text


EDIT: Oh and also, for 3N1W, could you move the invis potions so the player can get all the mirrors out without taking the NW invis potion.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 09-11-2013 11:53 PM]
09-11-2013 at 03:29 PM
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Lucky Luc
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In case I haven't mentioned yet: Man, I'm stupid. I even noticed that you could use Halph to toggle that pressure plate, but missed that.

Posted a small update that should fix the three solutions that have come up so far. Hope that those were all.
09-13-2013 at 01:47 PM
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blorx1
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icon Re: Annie's Hold (0)  
I've played through the fixed rooms. I like the changes, halph wasn't too fiddly for 1E, and 3N1E was pretty clever (My first solution might work, but it would be very very hard to pull off)

1W seems slightly broken, the intended solution mostly works, but at the same time is slightly easier than intended.

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[Last edited by blorx1 at 09-14-2013 12:26 AM]
09-14-2013 at 12:26 AM
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Lucky Luc
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Okay, I started working on another level now. Didn't know what monster would fit an ocean, so I had to create my own again ;) . I hope it works as it should (I think it should be bug-free by now), that the explanation is sufficient and that the puzzles are a bit more interessting than the last time I tried to create a custom game element (I gotta work on that hold again some day, if only so that your rooms get published, blorx1). Tell me what you think!

About 1W: Yeah, that's not quite intended, but I consider leaving it in. It could be fixed relatively easily, but it doesn't seem to trivialize the room too much.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention the weird level layout, I know that arrows on room entrances are frowned upon and this is kind of similiar, but I hope it's okay in this specific case. If not I have to think about an alternative way to handle things. The level can't be completed right now, but I hope there's no way to get stuck and you can always return to the hub.

[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 10-02-2013 12:27 AM]
10-01-2013 at 08:50 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Major bump.

This is an effort to save at least one of my unfinished holds from the eternal depths of the architecture board. After replaying the rooms, I'd re-estimate the difficulty in the medium to upper medium range, but still quite a bit easier than some of the stuff from The Intelligence. Probably a bit harder than Blackout, though.

So, I've originally intended this to be pretty large-ish, with 5 complete puzzle levels, but I figured I would've never finished this. So instead I've taken the two complete levels that existed, tried to wrap them up nicely and am now aiming to release "Annie's Half-Finished Hold".

I've only touched one puzzle, because it seemed to be too difficult and also because TSS allows to greatly reduce its tedium. If you've played the hold before, you might know which one. The others have remained unchanged.

Also, two post-mastery rooms were added; one which is just the one I've cut from the original (with reduced tedium) and one that I've already announced before.

blorx1 and Red-XIII have already done a lot of testing three years ago, so I guess this isn't super high on the architectural testing list. Still, if you want to give it a try, I'd be very happy :)

So yeah, enjoy! :)
06-22-2016 at 10:48 PM
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Lucky Luc
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icon Re: Annie's Half-Finished Hold (0)  
Okay, feeling on a roll today, so I'm just gonna submit this, too :P Thanks again Red-XIII and blorx1 for testing back then!
06-23-2016 at 09:18 PM
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