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Lucky Luc
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File: Missile Mania RC1.hold (36.2 KB)
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Hi again,

while my first hold is more or less done and now in testing phase, I decided to experiment a bit with scripting custom game elements. I've came up with two variations of the same idea of which I both think they have a certain puzzle potential: The straight and the guided missile.

I've only come up with a couple of puzzle ideas so far, but I'd really like to hear your opinion about them, so I decided to upload this in a still very early state of development.

The straight missile level so far contains 2 fairly trivial introductory rooms as well as 3 rooms you might actually call puzzles, but I think still on the easy side. The guided missile level only contains one introductory room at the moment.

Hope you enjoy! :)

Oh, and feel free to use and modify my script if you want to (it's public domain, after all).

EDIT: Whoops, messed up the stairs back up. Sorry, should be fixed now.

EDIT2: Finally updated this hold file, too; current version: RC1
[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 07-24-2014 03:16 PM]
10-14-2012 at 02:00 PM
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Red-XIII
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This is AWESOME! I love this idea, many interesting puzzles can be created with this script; until now I only managed 1E and 2E that is a really cool puzzle. About the other rooms I understood what to do but didn't do it yet because I didn't understood well the movements priority, like in 1N3E.
About 1S2E is really cool but I am one move shorter because I can't use the upper fegundo to lead the roach ( I started from the bottom).
3E, still didn't see the solution, perhaps I should use fegundo to block other rockets.
You should definitely keep going on this hold since these puzzle can be very funny and challenging.

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10-14-2012 at 03:28 PM
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Rheb
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Really enjoyed this :)

I've cleared everything and managed to blow up the cracked walls in the second level. I like how the missiles leave fegundos behind, it's a nice quirk.

In the first level I liked 2E and 3E. 3E could definitely use some markings that shows you the missile paths though. That way you can figure out the outcome before you fire the missiles more easily, and minimize trial and error.

The movement order rooms are ok. I can see a lot of people not wanting to plan and calculate every collision though so you might want to make those rooms unrequired or secret. It's never fun getting stuck too early in a hold. This is just my feeling about these rooms though.

I think the hunting missiles have huge potential. Can't wait to see what you'll do with those!

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10-14-2012 at 08:09 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Thanks for the feedback so far, glad you both liked it :)

Red-XIII, I think you're on the right track for all of the rooms. A little hint for 1S2E: The uppermost rocket can be exploded in the needed place, but the roach must take a slightly more complicated path. The movement order is quite confusing indeed, I must admit; it's because of how the script works. There are still some glitches to the script, though, so I might rework that later on (unfortunately I haven't found a solution I like so far, only compromises).

Rheb, about the movement order/timing puzzles: I can see your point there. I hadn't really thought of it this way, I guess because my usual tactic to tackle such rooms could be called systematic trial and error, which means I estimate a possible collision visually without really counting, look at the outcome, notice something like "Aha, I was three moves short this time" and usually solve it on my next try. Though this works quite well for me, I guess it is trial and error after all.

Then again I must admit I kind of like these rooms (especially 1S2E), and I don't know how many non-timing puzzles with straight missiles (they're a rather obvious thing to do, after all ;) ) I can think of... But I'll think about it and maybe wait for a few more opinions on that topic.

I think the hunting missiles have huge potential. Can't wait to see what you'll do with those!
Thanks! Funnily, that's exactly what I think and wonder, too ;) . I am admittedly a little concerned that I won't manage to fully exploit their potential, but then again, maybe someone else will someday (speaking of that, if anyone is interessted I can give a slightly more detailed description of how the scripting works).

And slightly off-topic: I'm not quite sure if the Empire uses the standard calendar of the Eight? I thought I've seen citizens use "A. T." somewhere, but I can't remember where.
10-16-2012 at 05:08 PM
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Someone Else
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Very nice! I'm impressed. I look forward to seeing what you do with this.
10-16-2012 at 10:24 PM
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Seth
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This has some very nice puzzles.

I love the way you made the guided missiles turn like a real missile.

A little room I'm working on ;).
Click here to view the secret text


Oh and a little suggestion: In the Idle missile script you should add "Player sword (off)" to save time putting those guys in every room unless you would add the sword later.

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[Last edited by Seth at 10-23-2012 11:43 PM]
10-23-2012 at 11:40 PM
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Seth
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Start:

Click here to view the secret text


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997 error exceptions in the code,
997 error exceptions,
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1278 error exceptions in the code...
10-23-2012 at 11:47 PM
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Lucky Luc
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File: Missile Mania v0-2.hold (18.2 KB)
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Thanks :)

I actually changed the script a little since I've uploaded this, mainly to fix the issue of direct explosions (or rather that they don't happen) which you might be aware of if you've played around with them in the editor, but it also has some nice side effects (the script is fully automated now).

Actually, since I've also designed a few new puzzles, I might just as well upload the current version instead of just explaining it. I've also decided to make the second level accessible without having to solve all the puzzles, as this hold is mainly meant to show off the new elements. Note that it's still very WIP, though.

Oh, and your room looks very interessting! I must admit though that I have no idea what it is about yet, but I'm looking forward to playing it :)

EDIT: Nevermind, I got it now :rolleyes . Pretty simple idea, but I think it might be quite interessting to play.

Lukas
[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 10-24-2012 04:12 PM]
10-24-2012 at 01:49 PM
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Seth
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Lucky Luc wrote:
Thanks :)

I actually changed the script a little since I've uploaded this, mainly to fix the issue of direct explosions (or rather that they don't happen) which you might be aware of if you've played around with them in the editor, but it also has some nice side effects (the script is fully automated now).

Actually, since I've also designed a few new puzzles, I might just as well upload the current version instead of just explaining it. I've also decided to make the second level accessible without having to solve all the puzzles, as this hold is mainly meant to show off the new elements. Note that it's still very WIP, though.

Oh, and your room looks very interessting! I must admit though that I have no idea what it is about yet, but I'm looking forward to playing it :)


Lukas

Thanks for your feedback! :)

I look forward to seeing this project evolve.

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10-24-2012 at 05:01 PM
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Red-XIII
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File: MM Abandoned Labs The Entrance Victory.demo (1 KB)
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Once again, these new puzzle are amazing! I expecially loved Research Facility 5E, it's awesome! Also the puzzle with the WW is really really interesting. Sadly I couldn't comlpete 4E and 1N4E but I really liked them.
About level 2, I didn't solved 1W because I didn't understood guided missile movements. About entrance I think I found an UU.
I don't know if this strange behaviour exist by purpose or by accident but I discovered it casually, I attached a demo to show you.
Anyway nice job as usual, looking forward for the next puzzles :)

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10-30-2012 at 07:17 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Again, thank you :)

This behaviour is, well, not unintended. I didn't think of it while writing the script, but I soonly figured out it was possible. It's a direct consequence of how the script works, and I actually kind of like it (I've actually already designed a room that makes use of this behaviour). Oh, and even if you blow up the broken walls this way, you might still find a use for the other missile ;) .

I see that the movement behaviour might be a little hard to understand, and maybe 1W is already too tricky for an introductory room? It's hard to judge for me as I of course know how the movement works, maybe some of the other testers can give a little feedback on the difficulty and if you've completely figured out the movement patterns. Anyway, here's how the thing works:

Click here to view the secret text


EDIT: Oops, I just figured that guards and aumtlich turn ccw instead of cw when there's a tie. I think I'll adapt to that, but for now the description above is true.
[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 10-30-2012 10:01 PM]
10-30-2012 at 09:56 PM
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Someone Else
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RF:1N4E: I solved this with only three missiles, and then for the challenge only 3 babies.
Can't beat 1S5E, though.
10-30-2012 at 10:07 PM
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Red-XIII
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Lucky Luc wrote:
I see that the movement behaviour might be a little hard to understand, and maybe 1W is already too tricky for an introductory room?

Well perhaps you could put 1W as one of the last room of the level :)
I really appreciate your explanation, it'll took me a while but now I'll definitely understand how it works, thanks!


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10-30-2012 at 10:21 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Someone Else wrote: RF:1N4E: I solved this with only three missiles, and then for the challenge only 3 babies.

3 missiles: Oh, for some reason I never thought of that solution. But I wouldn't say it breaks the room, so I'll just pretend it's intended ;)
3 babies: Wow, this took me some time to repoduce, nice find! I'll adjust the challenge then.
11-01-2012 at 07:19 PM
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blorx1
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File: Missle Dance.hold (9.8 KB)
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I think this is a really interesting element with a huge amount of puzzle potential(a lot more than I would have expected at least). Given that it has this much puzzle potential, I made several puzzles using it, which I would say are rather tough.

I've beaten all three of the puzzles in the editor, but have yet to record demos, to the best of my knowledge they are solvable.

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11-03-2012 at 05:43 AM
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Lucky Luc
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File: Missile Mania v0-3.hold (23.1 KB)
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Cool! :)

I've played your hold, very nice, here are some comments:

Entrance: Interessting and quite fun to play, but I solved it having one missile left over. US I guess?
1W: Took me some time to figure out what to do, and then even more time to actually do it. Double snake manipulation can be a nasty thing, but overall pretty fun. Having both straight and guided missiles at the same time seems to have quite some potential.
1E: I haven't solved this one yet, but the mechanism as far as I understood it is awesome! I don't know yet how to activate all the orbs; it would probably help to have a checkpoint ;)
General: I've noticed that in your hold sometimes missiles go off directly after entering a room. This is probably because you didn't place the _InitMissiles NPC before any other missile-related NPC. I should have mentioned that before, sorry.

So, now that two people already designed their own puzzles, two things:

1. I've updated the script once more, so you might want to download the newest version. Here are the changes:
(*) The guided missiles now prefer ccw over cw (the most significant change).
(*) A little bug concerning speed potions has been fixed.
(*) After finally understanding the _MyScript variables, I've added a little visual effect.
I hope that this is (my) final version now; if you still find any more bugs please let me know.

2. If you would like to, I'd be happy to add your rooms as post-mastery content. Don't feel obligated to do so, however, only in case you don't want to publish them in one of your own holds.

Oh, and the new hold also contains three brand new puzzles; nothing too exciting yet, though.
[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 11-03-2012 10:09 PM]
11-03-2012 at 10:06 PM
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blorx1
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I fixed the issues you mentioned with my rooms.
I think that you should add the rooms I made as postmastery content, feel free to change the layout, just keep the puzzles. I added some more checkpoints to 1W and 1E, since I forgot them originally.

It is intended to have a missle left over in the Entrance. You had to
Click here to view the secret text
.

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11-04-2012 at 03:42 AM
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Lucky Luc
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So, I solved 1E now, I think it's my favourite of the three. And good to know that my solution to Entrance is indeed intended (yes, I did what you said). Thanks for your permission to use them, I really like these puzzles! :)
11-06-2012 at 02:46 PM
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Lucky Luc
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File: Missile Mania v1-1.hold (34.3 KB)
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Version 1.0 is here! :)

The hold is (or should be) completely backtrackable and most of the required rooms are more or less easily accessible, so everyone who tries this hold should hopefully at least get an idea what this is about. It is Anyone Edit (and I intend to leave that, in case people want to use the script), however, because of scripting issues, I wouldn't recommend play-testing it in the editor. Sorry about that, maybe I can find a solution to that, but for now it should hopefully suffice to play the actual game.

I found it a lot harder than I originally thought to come up with new puzzle ideas, but I hope you'll like the new rooms. Critism is always welcome; if you find rooms too bad/frustrating/whatever I'll see if I can come up with alternative puzzles (for now, all the original puzzles are still included, though some of them maybe have to be altered).

It is definitely possible to conquer and master this hold, I just did. I haven't post-masterd it, but I've conquerd blorx1's hold before which basically is the post-mastery level, so I think that should be possible, too. And talking about that, I'd like to know what other people think about the difficulty, I always find that hard to judge.

Hope you enjoy and please leave comments! :)

EDIT: Sorry, I messed up the post-mastery level. I really should start testing more carefully. Anyway, should be fixed now, and it doesn't affect the main hold. And while I'm already at editing, I forgot to mention I use Rheb's "Mosaic Frost" theme. I'm not sure if GatEB downloads styles that are not on CaravelNet, so if you don't have it, you might want to search for it.
[Last edited by Lucky Luc at 12-14-2012 10:07 AM]
12-13-2012 at 02:41 PM
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blorx1
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File: Missile Mania.demo (11.4 KB)
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I got around to playing though this whole hold and have found a couple unintended solutions, the demos for the whole hold are attached. I have comments for some rooms, that I think should be changed.
Click here to view the secret text


For the most part I don't have any complaints, and also apparently I misspelled missile in the name of the postmastery level, do you mind changing it.


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[Last edited by blorx1 at 04-18-2013 03:00 PM]
04-18-2013 at 02:59 PM
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Lucky Luc
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File: MM Research Facility 1S5E Victory.demo (1.5 KB)
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Sorry I'm being so quiet lately. I really appreciate your feedback, I'm just a little short of time at the moment. So no update, just a few comments:

RF:
4E: Hmm. That's a clever solution. I think this might be fixable, though.
1S5E: I would totally agree with you, but actually it is possible to handle them one by one (see attached demo). Maybe actually having to use the "observation room" for the second wraithwing is a bit too cruel?
AL 1N5W: That is a very clean solution. Not quite sure yet what I'll do about it, I guess I'll have to alter the path a bit.
MD: Fixed the title. Also fixed the wrong NPC order in 1W, sorry about that (my bad).

I'm glad that list was rather short :) . If you do think other rooms could be improvised as well, please let me know!
04-25-2013 at 10:20 PM
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blorx1
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I think I remember looking at 1S5E a while ago and doing it less painfully, so it probably isn't too bad. I think I was being stupid, forgetting to leave the third wraithwing, and wouldn't have had too many issues if I'd been working with two. That being said, I could still appreciate having a strategic hole in the wall making it painless to get them out.

For the other two rooms, I don't think that the US's are a major issue. In 1N5W I doubt the solution differs too much. 4E might be worth fixing, since using the hot tile is a rather relevant part of the solution.

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04-25-2013 at 11:40 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Update :)

Okay, I think I've fixed the few remaining points now. I also changed the script a little to allow editor-testing. I didn't completely play through it, I just don't have the time for that right now, but I think everything should work the way it's supposed to do now. If not, please let me know!
04-27-2013 at 06:32 PM
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I'm in two minds about this hold. The good is that missiles as a puzzle element are interesting. A few of the rooms here were pretty clever, and I could imagine other ways that you could mix missiles into different puzzles. Honestly, this hold half makes me wish DROD's dev team would consider adding some kind of tactical projectile or another into the official game.

The bad is that the implementation of the missiles is ... ugly (fegundos leftovers, awkwardly indicated trigger tiles), even though I know firsthand how limited the scripting engine is and that there isn't really anything to be done about it. More to my dissatisfaction, a lot of the puzzles included seemed to rely on fidgeting with movement order or counting out exact tiles over a pit. I got bored quickly and didn't seriously attempt to solve most of the hold.

- Fun Facts were helpful to know, but should refer to the missiles as 'missiles' and not 'NPCs', because a non-builder might not guess that behind-the-scenes info.
- Checkpoints in 3E aren't needed much since you're only launching the rockets in order once you've solved it, but they could at least not be ON the launchpads.
- 1N3E. Hiding that conquer token was a dick move. Just saying.
04-28-2013 at 05:31 AM
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Lucky Luc
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Thanks for your feedback! Glad you basically liked the element, and as you said, there's not much I can do about the implementation.

Too bad you didn't like the puzzles that much, but I can see your point. Movement order / Precise timing are quite an issue in most of the rooms, and I understand that's not as much fun as a good lynchpin puzzle. I guess you could say that's because I wanted to use the missiles as main element in each room and not only to support the puzzle, and that the nature of the missiles is rather timing-based. But then again that's maybe just a lousy excuse for sloppy architecture ;) . Anyway, I'd be glad if you could tell me if there were any rooms you found specifically painful, then I might at least try to replace those.

- Fun Facts were helpful to know, but should refer to the missiles as 'missiles' and not 'NPCs', because a non-builder might not guess that behind-the-scenes info.
Good point, I'll add that.

- Checkpoints in 3E aren't needed much since you're only launching the rockets in order once you've solved it, but they could at least not be ON the launchpads.
Huh? I see that they might not be necessary, but do they really hurt?

- 1N3E. Hiding that conquer token was a dick move. Just saying.
Haha, sorry, that wasn't even intended (didn't think of that being a problem). Could be easily changed, but that's a room that might be kicked out, anyway, unless someone puts in a good word for it.
04-28-2013 at 11:38 AM
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Lucky Luc
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Bump.

Okay, I think I'm lacking motivation to work on this any more (especially with all those new fun TSS elements and scripting available), but I don't want it to get completely lost in the depths of the architecture board, either. So I've updated the hold to 5.0.

I think I didn't touch the puzzles themselves, so all the old demos should still work. However, I fixed some scripting and text bugs I've found, added a few challenges, made the two (in my opinion) most annoying rooms unrequired and changed the visual style of the post-mastery level.

Since the hold is basically tested, my main concern now would be the writing. If someone could proof-read my texts, I'd be very thankful (and I'd show my appreciation in form of some rank points). When that is done, I'll probably submit it to the HAs.

- Lukas
07-24-2014 at 03:34 PM
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Looking through the writing now. I'll keep adding to this post with anything I find.

RF intro text: Tense inconsistency. Change to "Seems like he'd had".
RF 2E (scroll): "in the next couple of days"
RF 5E (scroll): Spelling: "Thrisuary"
RF 1S2E (scroll): Should say "missiles", not "NPCs", as OneMoreNameless noted.
RF 1S3E (scroll): Unclear. Suggest changing "questions" to "calls into question".
RF 1N4E (character speech): "Never mind" is two words.
RF 1N5E (scrolls): Missing comma in date. Spelling: "interested". Second scroll is incomplete. What is a "hobby wraithwing farmer" -- do you mean "amateur"? No need for extra full stop when an acronym comes at the end of a sentence.
RF 1S6E (scrolls): Spelling: "decision". "Letdown" (the noun) should be one word (the verb is two words).
RF 1W (character speech): "I do not" is inconsistent in register with "gimme". Change to "don't".

AL intro text: Spelling: "apparently". "Merely" is a strange choice of word, not sure what you were going for.
Not a text issue, but I found AL Entrance very annoying -- too many deaths while trying to work out what exactly were the new missile's movement rules.
AL 1W: "Thrisuary" again. (This occurs several times more, and I won't note each one.) "Wished" should be "desired".

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 07-24-2014 11:15 PM]
07-24-2014 at 11:08 PM
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Lucky Luc
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Thanks, gonna fix these. AL intro text: Does "barely escaping" make more sense? I'm trying to say that he almost died but didn't.

AL entrance: Hmm, that's bad for an introduction room obviously... I'll try to come up with something. Just to be sure, did you have problems with the first missile, too, or only with the second one?
07-28-2014 at 06:57 PM
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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Architecture : Missile Mania (Two custom game elements)
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