vinheim
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File: Speed areas.hold (1020 bytes)
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In my attempt to find out configurations of wall-following NPCs that could be used for puzzle potential, I found nothing. However, I felt like using them to copy that effect where open yellow doors are Beethro-only areas and closed yellow doors are monster-only areas. I first tried it with 2 snakes as it was originally done, but because 1 snake was created after the roaches, the roaches moved towards me on open yellow doors every other turn. So they effectively acted like I used a speed potion. Mixing in an actual speed potion allows you to move 4 times for every 1 move they make.

Attached is a hold demonstrating these speed areas. No scripting. You'll move at twice the speed of roaches without the speed potion and 4x their speed with the speed potion. I hope this allows people to think of more horde control puzzles.

12th Archivist
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I just wanted to comment on this, since no one else did...

This system is really quite cool. This kind of idea has been around through the use of scripting, but a "pure" version impresses me. I can think of a variety of applications for thing!

Thanks for making this, vinhiem. You might see it in someone's work in the future, since it is easy to use.

So, having lost my train of thought, I shall just finish this with another compliment and a thumbs-up smiley.

Great job!

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vinheim
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And to think.. we all could have had "speed potions" during the JTRH days

Neather2
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Nice one. This could be the start of a new era of puzzles!

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12th Archivist
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vinheim wrote:
And to think.. we all could have had "speed potions" during the JTRH days

Not quite since JtRH lacked pressure plates. I can think of no other way of replicating this behavior. Any thoughts?

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vinheim
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I'm sure 2 scripted mimics hitting a toggle orb every other turn would do the trick.

12th Archivist
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vinheim wrote:
I'm sure 2 scripted mimics hitting a toggle orb every other turn would do the trick.

Ah, but that would require scripting, no?

Your idea is perfectly valid in JtRH, but not quite the "purity" of no scripting.

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vinheim
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True, I can't think of any "pure" way to do things, unless you use a guard placed before every other monster and a guard placed after every monster and they are forced to turn their sword onto an orb every other turn no matter where Beethro is and that seems like a complicated thing to do. Also, spawned monsters (roaches or tarstuff babies) wouldn't be affected by the speed area.

I may be wrong about my above post as well. 2 scripted mimics move after monsters so the effect could only be replicated using the above "pure" way or by having a guard and a scripted mimic and the guard HAS to swing his sword onto the orb every other turn only. It's not a "pure" way, but at least you wouldn't have to worry about spawned monsters.

Penwielder
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File: Force Fields.hold (2.6 KB)
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Part of the trouble is that you can't put guards, mimics (or scripted characters, as far as I know) at the end of the movement order.

I came up with something similar to this just over a year ago (November 30, 2009, according to DROD), and had hoped to make a hold out of it (which I obviously haven't yet) before talking about it. I called them 'force fields', because my use of them was rather different. I suppose I wouldn't mind letting you have a look now--I've put three of the rooms into a little hold, attached here. In the third room, to save you some trouble, I'll tell you now that the pressure plate basically toggles which tarstuff baby is brained (note the movement order carefully).

I don't recall how efficiently I thought I made the snake/pressure plate system, but the point is in the unusual puzzles.

The 'speed area' concept is a simpler application of this which never crossed my mind. What would be even more interesting is if we could find a related way to speed up the monsters in relation to Beethro (although a closed door can't stop him from turning--perhaps a separate mimic-based system could?).

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12th Archivist
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File: Implementation.hold (4 KB)
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I am quite impressed with the "force field", Penwielder! Points to you and a sign that says "nifty"!

Penwielder wrote:
Part of the trouble is that you can't put guards, mimics (or scripted characters, as far as I know) at the end of the movement order.

Scripted characters have a process order of 9999, meaning they move after all other entities in the room. This means you could script a guard-like entity that would move after the serpent and get caught every other turn in the yellow doors. Depending on your opinions, the fact that mimics move before common monsters (such as snakes) could be seen as a good thing.

The 'speed area' concept is a simpler application of this which never crossed my mind. What would be even more interesting is if we could find a related way to speed up the monsters in relation to Beethro (although a closed door can't stop him from turning--perhaps a separate mimic-based system could?).

With the player always moving first, the only way I could imagine implementing this idea is by having other entities do things that forbid the player from moving by the end of the *last* turn. This would give the player a free turn at the beginning of the room, though. Perhaps someone will think of a way to make this work?

Anyway, attached to my post is a room I ripped right out of the in-progress Ninth Floor of my hold, Krighton's Castle, that uses this idea in little "arenas" the player has to enter and conquer. Since there are four of these "arenas" in a single room, four serpents had to be used, along with several wubba NPCs that would disappear when the player entered the associated area. Shown from the title screen is a victory demo of the room that displays the challenge.

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vinheim
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2 awesome holds today.

The force field isn't new to me, but the other puzzles you've got displayed something new and awesome! For a second, I thought the second room was impossible unless movement order was involved (which it was). The third room also displays something interesting and new due to movement order which is making certain enemies brained while making other enemies unbrained depending on if a plate is being pressed.

Also, that speed room in the Implementation hold was well done. The best parts had to be the golem and goblin bits.

Anyways, concerning the problem posed by Penwielder, I completely forgot about the fact that guards, slayers, (other humans?) and other monsters have different movement orders. The following I got from schep in a different topic:

1. Player moves.
2. Mimics move.
3. Slayer(s) move.
4. Guards move.
5. All other monsters move.
6. Characters act.
7. Other things happen (e.g. to tar/mud, fuses, green/red/black doors).

So the 2-guard thing won't work, but the guard and scripted mimic would. The only things that won't slow down are custom NPC's moving after the mimic, actual mimics (makes sense on Beethro's part), and Slayers (think of it as them having another strength, which is being unaffected by artificial (?) speed potions). This is for JtRH, so I'm not sure about other entities.

---

[Last edited by vinheim at 01-02-2011 10:50 PM]

vinheim
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12th Archivist wrote:
You might see it in someone's work in the future, since it is easy to use.

I see what you did there.

12th Archivist
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vinheim wrote:

12th Archivist wrote:
You might see it in someone's work in the future, since it is easy to use.

I see what you did there.

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It was going well until it exploded.
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Shendy
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File: Temporary speed areas.hold (2.1 KB)
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License: Public Domain

Here is my hold demonstrating "Temporary speed areas". This demonstration shows the idea of "Speed areas" which is in effect temporarily.