DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
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Registered: 12-01-2007
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File: The Great Adventure 2.hold (242.1 KB)
Downloaded 63 times.
License: Public Domain

Remember the last hold I made? I know that hold wasn't so good, so I came up with a new one!
I really think this one is better, yay way better
I want you to try it, even though this is not finished yet, but I want you to see it anyways and tell me how it is for now
EDIT: uploaded again, modified some things and completed until 'Inside the thing'
EDIT2: finished

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[Last edited by DyRsOfDh14 at 04-29-2010 11:40 PM]

TheGreenPhantom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 39
Registered: 09-11-2009
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.

____________________________
I am not made of matter.. does it matter if you are made of matter? Or does it not matter if you are made of matter?

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[Last edited by TheGreenPhantom at 10-08-2014 03:59 AM]

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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TheGreenPhantom wrote:
The surroundings are something I notice you put effort into.
However, some puzzles are annoying.
For example, The Forest Once North Once East takes so long and until you clear all the tar (which is near the end of the room) you can use the check-point. I nearly finished clearing the tarstuff and slipped my finger and got into a situation where I couldn't complete the room anymore. The waterskippers also stack up. Twice South, Once East is a great puzzle, but if you had half the snakes it would still work. It's a little hard to manipulate the snakes to the bottom.
EDIT: By the way, i've completed alot of the rooms. I'm stuck on Twice south, once east because I cannot manipulate the snakes to the bottom. Or do I have to use the wubbas? If I use the wubbas, It is surely impossible.

Thank you for that, I will see what I can do in 1N1E
For 2S1E, if you mean the arrows, you just have to step on the token and then step on the pressure plates by yourself

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
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But you can't reach the token. Serpents are blocking your way.

One general thing that might improve the hold is if you make it easy for your testers. Make the hold anyone-edit. That's a good way to let people test, even if they get stuck. Oh, and tar-mazes were you can't see have never been a favourite. I sugest you leave the visibility on for 2E.

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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The one of the serpents, you can reach the tokens, if I managed to do it
Ok, I attached the hold again anyone edit, I have it until sky palace, wich it has 3 rooms left
I modified the thing in 2E

TheGreenPhantom
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 39
Registered: 09-11-2009
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Taking a peek in the editor, I see many useless levels. For example, Frozen Camps. It's just a void of nothingness. The beach... A void of nothingness. With a glance of few rooms, I can immediately tell they are impossible. For example, Tiki island twice south has too much skipper nests. However, you also made the monsters not being able to be accessed. I also see some great puzzles you thought of. However, some of them are impossible. I'd rather spend a long time in a room trying to figure out the solution than killing thousands of monsters. Quarce east is an example of this. (I'm not going to pick on the creator of Pitiful) Pitiful was large. If it was half the size, it would be great. Same with this hold. Some puzzles are impossible but I can see the potential out of them. But anyway, nice hold. Just be sure to improve it. You don't have to listen to a novice architect like me
EDIT: By the way, The forest Twice South Once east is still impossible because they are on/off pressure plates. Therefore you need a monster, like a snake. But that is impossible with a brain unless they eat you. Which is game over.

____________________________
I am not made of matter.. does it matter if you are made of matter? Or does it not matter if you are made of matter?

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[Last edited by TheGreenPhantom at 03-20-2010 11:11 PM]

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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File: TGA2 The Forest 2S1E Victory.demo (2.1 KB)
Downloaded 53 times.
License: Public Domain

TheGreenPhantom wrote:
Taking a peek in the editor, I see many useless levels. For example, Frozen Camps. It's just a void of nothingness. The beach... A void of nothingness. With a glance of few rooms, I can immediately tell they are impossible. For example, Tiki island twice south has too much skipper nests. However, you also made the monsters not being able to be accessed. I also see some great puzzles you thought of. However, some of them are impossible. I'd rather spend a long time in a room trying to figure out the solution than killing thousands of monsters. Quarce east is an example of this. (I'm not going to pick on the creator of Pitiful) Pitiful was large. If it was half the size, it would be great. Same with this hold. Some puzzles are impossible but I can see the potential out of them. But anyway, nice hold. Just be sure to improve it. You don't have to listen to a novice architect like me
EDIT: By the way, The forest Twice South Once east is still impossible because they are on/off pressure plates. Therefore you need a monster, like a snake. But that is impossible with a brain unless they eat you. Which is game over.

Now that I think about it, I think you're right about frozen camps, my idea was something to find the exit, but I didn't do it pretty well, but just let it be
Beach, cemetery etc. are part of the city, nothing more
And if you mean the shore, it's because the story of the hold will be the last thing I'll make
Tiki Island 2S it's possible, you need to come from the west in the platform above the water
And The Forest 2S1E IS possible
I attached a demo
And I will pay attention to every single one of you, the last time I didn't listen to anyone of you my hold was full of issues, I'm not gonna make the same mistake again

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[Last edited by DyRsOfDh14 at 03-20-2010 11:20 PM]

BoyBlue
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 547
Registered: 03-25-2006
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I played up to the level named "Top", but it does not seem to be possible to go any farther.

The level named "..." also seems to be impossible to leave.

Forest 1N1E - You don't have to open the black door. I don't know if that's by design.

Forest 2N2E - The orb at (6,0) does nothing. Was it supposed to close the door at (4,10)?

The Ship 1E - This has a door-opening script with an "End" statement. If you use the wrong exit after the script ends, you'll be stuck.

The Ship - A checkpoint somewhere on this level would be nice. The lack of one makes it difficult to test your scripts.

And since everyone's discussing Forest 2S1E: I used the wubbas to help guide rattlesnakes onto the pressure plates.

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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BoyBlue wrote:
I played up to the level named "Top", but it does not seem to be possible to go any farther.

The level named "..." also seems to be impossible to leave.

Forest 1N1E - You don't have to open the black door. I don't know if that's by design.

Forest 2N2E - The orb at (6,0) does nothing. Was it supposed to close the door at (4,10)?

The Ship 1E - This has a door-opening script with an "End" statement. If you use the wrong exit after the script ends, you'll be stuck.

The Ship - A checkpoint somewhere on this level would be nice. The lack of one makes it difficult to test your scripts.

And since everyone's discussing Forest 2S1E: I used the wubbas to help guide rattlesnakes onto the pressure plates.

The hold isn't finished, and I haven't put the scripts on top and ... in the last attachment
I will attach again the hold when I finish the level 'Inside the thing'
Forest 1N1E - thanks for that, I'll correct it
Forest 2N2E - I forgot that, again thanks for that
The Ship 1E - I'll correct it
The Ship - I don't put checkpoints to make it slightly harder, because on each room you just have to kill some pirates/guards

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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Hold finished, I leave the anyone edit for testing

BoyBlue
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 547
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King's Castle 1N1W (because there are trapdoors under obstacles) and King's Castle 1S (because of the westernmost adder) look impossible to me.

Other comments:

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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Thank you, modified

BoyBlue
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 547
Registered: 03-25-2006
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Sky Palace 3S1W - This room makes no sense now.

King's Castle 1N1W is still impossible.

King's Castle 2N1E - Red door at entrance makes it impossible(?) to complete this level.

Ghost Undertown 12E (and maybe 4E) - I suggest oremites on the entrance, instead of hot tile.

For reference, here's a list of ways to get into an unwinnable state. I'm not saying they all have to be fixed before the hold can be promoted. That's for the HAs to decide.

* Clear Forest 2E, then unclear it, then leave by the east or south exit.

* Clear Forest 3E (I think you can only use the west exit) before clearing the rooms beyond it.

* The Ship 1E - After the character opens the door, stand next to the east exit, then change your mind and use a different exit.

* The Ship 2E - Get the treasure, leave, then go back and get the treasure again.

* Enter Ghost Undertown 12E with your sword pointing any direction but east.

* Conquer Ghost Undertown 11E (as you'd normally do), continue on until you get back to the City, then enter the Forest again. After a long walk, you'll be stuck when you get back to Ghost Undertown 11E.

* Clear King's Castle 1N, then unclear it, then leave to the west.

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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Sky Palace 2S1W - How didn't I see that?
Castle 1N1W - I modified it just after I uploaded it, now I changed it to a total different puzzle
Castle 2N1E - Modified it just after I uploaded it
Ghost Undertown 12E/4E - Modified in 4E, but I think it's the same if I leave or not an oremite on the entrance square
Unwinnable state list:
Forest 2E - Don't know what to do, I just left a checkpoint before leaving
Forest 3E - Same as above
Ship 1E - I left another npc to open the door
Ship 2E - Changed
Ghost Undertown 12E - That's because I left a checkpoint in the exit square on every room
Ghost Undertown 11E - I don't think someone will do that...
Castle 1N - I left the door in the exit square to the west
Thank you...

mxvladi
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 2505
Registered: 02-11-2008
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DyRsOfDh14 wrote:
Forest 2E - Don't know what to do, I just left a checkpoint before leaving

Move green doors to edges of the room. That should fix it.

Forest 3E - Same as above

You can make 4E and 1N 3E unrequired. Not sure if you want to, though...

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[Last edited by mxvladi at 03-31-2010 11:09 PM]

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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Thank you mxvladi, but I will leave Forest 3E how it is, if you get stuck just use the restore option, there is a checkpoint there
Modified the problem in 2E

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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DyRsOfDh14 wrote:
Thank you mxvladi, but I will leave Forest 3E how it is, if you get stuck just use the restore option, there is a checkpoint there
Modified the problem in 2E

Just for the record, HAs will not approve holds with backtracking issues without a very very very good reason.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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The only thing I think I can do is to change that room completely, but I don't want to .-.

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3226
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Here's one way to fix that room:

- Remove all of the offending sister gates from the room entrances
- Add new green sister gates around the roach area
(something like this: )

###############
######RD      G   (#=wall)
G   ##DD      G   (P=pressure-plate)
G   PP        G   (D=yellow door)
#   PP        #   (R=roach)
###############   (G=open green door)
      X           (X=closed green door)
###############

This way, the puzzle still works the same. You must pass through the pressure plates to get to the following rooms. You also can't kill the roach immediately or you'll get stuck between the doors.

Finally, you need to add a route past this entire chamber so you can get through the room after clearing it. This is the bottom passage in the diagram. The closed green door prevents you from skipping the puzzle the first time through.

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
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Thanks Doom, I modified it, but I didn't understand very well, tell me if I'm wrong...

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

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Yes. The backtracking problems with that room are gone now.

If the room still plays the way you want it to, it should be fine.

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
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Registered: 12-01-2007
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Ok, thank you
I will wait to see if you find some more issues I didn't catch, I've already completed the hold and confirmed that the hold is, at least, possible to master

BoyBlue
Level: Smitemaster
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These are the three remaining "backtracking" issues in the latest version:

* The Ship 2E - Get the treasure; leave the room; go back and stand next to the treasure again; leave the room. Now you'll never be able to leave the level. (I don't think you understood my earlier report.)

* Enter Ghost Undertown 12E with your sword pointing any direction but east.

* Conquer Ghost Undertown 11E, continue on until you get back to the City, then enter the Forest again. You'll get stuck at Ghost Undertown 11E.

Other comments:

Tiki Island 2N3W - You know you don't have to open the red doors, right?

King's Castle 3E - Two of the pressure plates toggle doors, when they should probably close them instead.

The image in City 3N includes graphics copied from TCB. If you don't have permission to use them, you'll probably have to get permission or remove the graphics.

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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BoyBlue wrote:
The image in City 3N includes graphics copied from TCB. If you don't have permission to use them, you'll probably have to get permission or remove the graphics.

Which images are these? I don't see any TCB-specific media in the hold, but I could be missing something.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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It's a dragon but it's on a wall, and that's in the image file, but I don't know another thing to put it on
Modified every issue that boyblue mentioned...

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[Last edited by DyRsOfDh14 at 04-05-2010 11:46 PM]

jbluestein
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DyRsOfDh14 wrote:
It's a dragon but it's on a wall, and that's in the image file, but I don't know another thing to put it on
Modified every issue that boyblue mentioned...

Well, you can't use Caravel-copyrighted artwork without permission. If you're using copyrighted images, you'll need to remove them or get permission to use them.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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Who do I need to ask to get permission?

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

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DyRsOfDh14 wrote:
Who do I need to ask to get permission?

mrimer is usually the right choice.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
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Registered: 12-01-2007
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Permission conceded

mrimer wrote: Thanks for asking. Yes, please go ahead.

DyRsOfDh14
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 56
Registered: 12-01-2007
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If you have something important to say about this hold, please let me know, It's already finished so I want to know your opinion