Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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File: Aurelia Keep.hold (8.2 KB)
Downloaded 63 times.
License: Public Domain

This is very much a work in progress -- only two puzzle rooms at the moment.
That said, I plan for an 18-24 room hold eventually.

May 13: Aesthetic improvements, one more room.

May 15: Some trivial solutions fixed, first level complete (except for the secret room)

May 17: Two more rooms, unintended solution in Storm 1N1E fixed

May 21: One new room in Static, made both Static rooms harder and Storm 1N1E substantially changed.

May 24: Two new rooms in Static, unintended solutions fixed.

May 26: Sleep now has content! Two rooms on the west side for the time being.

June 4: One new room. Regarding the slow progress of the hold, I am immersed (pardon the pun) in Aquaria. So when I finish, updates will be more substantial/frequent.

July 11: The hold isn't abandoned, just reduced in scope due to a lack of inspiration. This is a release-candidate version. 13 puzzles, and one post-mastery room that isn't really a puzzle.

July 13: Minor aesthetic improvements, ending rewritten, a scroll removed, another scroll added.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 07-14-2009 03:14 AM]

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
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Quite a good start, actually. I found the queen/adder room a bit more unique and fun than the aumtlich room.

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
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Is the left door in the Aumtlich room meant to be a toggle? Felt a little.. asymmetrical (and lets you get one out at a time.)

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[Last edited by TripleM at 05-10-2009 07:49 AM]

Pinnacle
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TripleM - It makes the left side easier. That was intentional.

Blondbeard - Thanks. I like that one too. Is the aumtlich room still good, or should I change/replace it?

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Insane
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 154
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I loved the aumtlich room; looking forward to see the rest.
The bottom part of that room seemed a *bit* boring though; had to restart and do the same sequence up to a certain point over and over and over again.

Pinnacle
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Insane wrote:
I loved the aumtlich room; looking forward to see the rest.
The bottom part of that room seemed a *bit* boring though; had to restart and do the same sequence up to a certain point over and over and over again.

It was originally much nastier. Any suggestions to make it more interesting/less frustrating?

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

NoahT
Level: Smitemaster

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Pinnacle wrote:

Insane wrote:
I loved the aumtlich room; looking forward to see the rest.
The bottom part of that room seemed a *bit* boring though; had to restart and do the same sequence up to a certain point over and over and over again.

It was originally much nastier. Any suggestions to make it more interesting/less frustrating?

Perhaps you could make one or both of the doors toggleable?

-Noah

____________________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:

Insane
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 154
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NoahT wrote:

Pinnacle wrote:

Insane wrote:
I loved the aumtlich room; looking forward to see the rest.
The bottom part of that room seemed a *bit* boring though; had to restart and do the same sequence up to a certain point over and over and over again.

It was originally much nastier. Any suggestions to make it more interesting/less frustrating?

Perhaps you could make one or both of the doors toggleable?

-Noah

Now that you mention it, I just noticed that the left door at the very top is toggleable, while the right door isn't. I suggest making them both open-only; I found the top half very fun doing it that way.

About the bottom doors, I'm not sure what you mean. Even if it was toggleable, you'd need to have all the aumtlichs lined up and following you before using the tunnel, otherwise you can't get back again.

TripleM
Level: Smitemaster
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Insane wrote:
Now that you mention it, I just noticed that the left door at the very top is toggleable, while the right door isn't. I suggest making them both open-only; I found the top half very fun doing it that way.

Just noticed? That has been mentioned and replied to already you know

I'm not quite sure if I did the bottom part right though based on those comments.. I didn't have to restart at all; it only takes a few moves to get above the first two Aumtliches, then you just head for the corridor, wait a few moves for all of them to come out, and go in.. felt pretty easy.

Pinnacle
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A slightly more substantial update. The first level is complete with five puzzle rooms.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 05-15-2009 06:56 AM]

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
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I've played through this one too - it's a nice start.

1S - The top half of the aumtlich room - getting them all stuck on a mirror is something I've done many times. The bottom half is more unusual and I liked it. It requires making some of the aumtlich turn instead of move and using those extra half turns wisely.
1E - Quick and fun goblin manipulation.
1N1E - I tricked the slayer into opening a door for me.
1W - A unique timed adder manipulation room. Fun. I liked this one the best.
1N1W - A very tight briar race. I finished just 3 squares ahead of the briar. I like how you have to make it grow *faster* in order to leave a path open to the exit.
secret - Found it! And I'm stuck here now. There's no way back.

Pinnacle
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I fixed the unintended solution in 1N1E, hopefully (thanks CSR)
Added a second level with two rooms so far -- both efficiency rooms.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
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File: AK Storm 1N1E Victory.demo (1.9 KB)
Downloaded 48 times.
License: Public Domain

In Storm 1N1E, I can still use the slayer and 6 tar babies on the pressure plates. Did you want me to manipulate babies near the mother so she would generate babies indefinitely and then I wouldn't need to use the slayer on a pressure plate? I've attached demos of both ways. In both demos, I kill the slayer on a force arrow before going after the tar mother.

CuriousShyRabbit
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I've also completed the new rooms in Static.

1N - It's possible to be a little "sloppy" in this room, using the fegundo to clean up a roach queen and some roaches after killing the mud mother. I've also done this room "neatly," killing everything before going for the mud mother. Both ways, I kill the mud mother 3-4 turns before she spawns. The crumbly wall NW of the power token isn't absolutely necessary, as it's possible to have a roach egg or fegundo ashes on the pressure plate at the appropriate time. Orchestrating all this stuff makes a pretty cool puzzle.

1W - The timer is very tight in here. I killed the last eye with no moves to spare! Interesting use of movement order and vertical preference.

Pinnacle
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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I've also completed the new rooms in Static.

1N - It's possible to be a little "sloppy" in this room, using the fegundo to clean up a roach queen and some roaches after killing the mud mother. I've also done this room "neatly," killing everything before going for the mud mother. Both ways, I kill the mud mother 3-4 turns before she spawns. The crumbly wall NW of the power token isn't absolutely necessary, as it's possible to have a roach egg or fegundo ashes on the pressure plate at the appropriate time. Orchestrating all this stuff makes a pretty cool puzzle.

1W - The timer is very tight in here. I killed the last eye with no moves to spare! Interesting use of movement order and vertical preference.

1N - Removing the crumbly wall adds another dimension to the room. I like it.

1W - I can tighten up the timer even more (by one turn). I think that reduces it to only one possible solution. Would that be cruel?

Seeing as I can't judge the difficulty of my own hold that well -- is Static harder than Storm, overall?

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1137
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Sorry to double post, but the hold is updated. One new room, three changed ones. The hold's on the first post, as always.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
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I've played through the new version. Maybe Static is a bit more difficult than Storm, but they seem pretty similar to me. I'm not a very good judge of difficulty.

Storm 1N1E - Has just the solution I expected now.

Storm secret - Don't forget to make a way to exit this room. Might as well make it and test that it doesn't introduce cheats to the other puzzles on the level.

Static 1N - My previous solution still works. Today, I also noticed an alternate solution, where you can send the fegundo north to kill the tar mother and activate the orb while Beethro stays in the southern part of the room.

Static 1W - I had to find a new solution that took one fewer move. I guess I preferred this room the way it was before. Those who see the faster solution will get higher scores, but it shouldn't be a roadblock to someone who just wants to see the hold. (Found the secret too.)

Static 1N1W - Hee, hee, if I hadn't seen your scroll I would have thought I'd broke it. (I did everything with the adder.) I think it's okay to have a distraction in the room.

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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CuriousShyRabbit wrote:
I've played through the new version. Maybe Static is a bit more difficult than Storm, but they seem pretty similar to me. I'm not a very good judge of difficulty.

Storm 1N1E - Has just the solution I expected now.

[mrburns] Excellent. [/mrburns]

Storm secret - Don't forget to make a way to exit this room. Might as well make it and test that it doesn't introduce cheats to the other puzzles on the level.

Done. That will be in the next version.

Static 1N - My previous solution still works. Today, I also noticed an alternate solution, where you can send the fegundo north to kill the tar mother and activate the orb while Beethro stays in the southern part of the room.

It's more efficient, but harder to do. I think I'll keep it there.

Static 1W - I had to find a new solution that took one fewer move. I guess I preferred this room the way it was before. Those who see the faster solution will get higher scores, but it shouldn't be a roadblock to someone who just wants to see the hold. (Found the secret too.)

Any other opinions on this? It could go either way.

Static 1N1W - Hee, hee, if I hadn't seen your scroll I would have thought I'd broke it. (I did everything with the adder.) I think it's okay to have a distraction in the room.

What exactly do you mean by 'everything with the adder'? Can you post a demo?

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
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File: AK Static 1N1W Victory.demo (1 KB)
Downloaded 49 times.
License: Public Domain

Pinnacle wrote:

Static 1N1W - Hee, hee, if I hadn't seen your scroll I would have thought I'd broke it. (I did everything with the adder.) I think it's okay to have a distraction in the room.

What exactly do you mean by 'everything with the adder'? Can you post a demo?

One demo coming up! The adder activated the pressure plate north of where the mud was, and it ate the roach.

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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OK, /that/ was unintended.

The intended solution involved


EDIT: Also, new version up.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

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[Last edited by Pinnacle at 05-25-2009 01:17 AM]

CuriousShyRabbit
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Okay, done!

Storm secret - now I can exit this room and continue with the hold. Nice catch with the green door in the briar race room. That means I can't use the secret exit to beat the room the easy way.

Static 1N1E - Now I need to keep the mud alive. There are still a couple ways my demo differs from your demo.
Static 2N - Some tricky mirror manipulation / roach timing here. I liked how each of the trips through the "danger zone" was with a different sword position or for a different purpose. That squeezed a lot of puzzle into a little room. Once the door to the tar mother opened, everything was easy, as that gave me a convenient place to turn my sword.

Static 2N1E - I think this is my favorite on the level. It took me a while to figure out what actually needed to happen before the roach queen laid an egg. And then I got a dead golem on the eastern pressure plate just in time, with no moves to spare. There was just enough switching between clones to really make them part of the puzzle, but not so much as to make switching clones tedious.

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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New version up!
New level (Sleep), including two new rooms.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
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Woohoo! I've mastered and postmastered this hold!
(For now, that is.)

The two new rooms in Sleep are challenging.

1N1W - Very nice logic puzzle. I *think* there's only one order to put all the monsters onto all the pressure plates. One possibility for the wubba, two possibilities for the roach, three possibilities for the aumtlich, and four possibilities for the goblin leads to only one final answer.

1W - I was stuck on this one for a while - had to sleep it. I like the dual purposes of the mirrors, as obstacles for frying roaches on hot tiles, and to freeze aumtlich to keep them in their little closets. The requirement to stick some roaches in the closets too was a nice touch.

It's very satisfying to finally figure out each of these puzzles.

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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New version up with one new room.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
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I've played the new room. Easier, but quirkier than the other rooms on the level. I definitely needed some roaches to pull the stalwarts southeast. I think people will have fun optimizing the solution to this room once they see how it works.

NoahT
Level: Smitemaster

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-Noah

____________________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1137
Registered: 06-10-2004
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Thanks, I'll add a green door to fix that in the next version.
Being sneaky with secret rooms is harder than I anticipated. =)

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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*casts Lv. 1 Necromancy on thread with a new (possibly final) version of the hold.*

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

CuriousShyRabbit
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3170
Registered: 10-14-2006
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I've replayed this hold.

I like the idea of using your former ideas for Sleep as secret rooms. Finding secrets is fun.

Static 1N1W still has the scroll asking testers what they thought of the lynchpin in that room. You might want to remove that.

I like the Machine. Very cool.

The end of hold message is kind of lame. I realize it's because you're out of ideas, but I think a slightly bizarre or surrealistic sentence would go better there. Only the architect and the testers will know that the hold was originally intended to be bigger. Suggestion to get the ideas flowing:

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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New (probably final) version up. The ending was rewritten and a scroll added to credit the testers.

Aside: Is the 'especially CSR' part considered poor form? Looking at the thread, it's clear she provided the vast majority of the feedback, but I appreciate everyone else's help as well.

____________________________
Once (adv.): Enough.
Twice (adv.): Once too often.
~Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary