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shurcooL
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icon DROD for Palm? (0)  
hi,

i'm thinking of making a Palm version of DROD, since it hasn't been done yet (and i wanna play it it during Math :P ), at least not to my knowledge. if it has been done, please tell me so i wouln't have to reinvent the wheel. :D

anyway, assuming i will have to develop one, i have a few questions. if anyone is familiar with Palm devinces, anyway, do you think it's possible? what would be some constrains that wouldn't let me do this or that? i have a monochrome ( :( ) Sony PEG T-415 ) device, which has a high resolution display (320x320, unlike regular ones, which are 160x160). from what i've counted, i can easily have tiles up to 5x5 pixels, which isn't that bad i guess. because the idea of not fitting the whole level on the screen isn't very appealing to me.

bah, i'll probably get lazy and never finish/start this project, but if i do attempt to, i'd rather have to hear what you have to say about it first. :)

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04-26-2003 at 12:47 AM
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Sokko
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Wasn't somebody already doing that? Or was it abandoned, pushed aside, or that person was you? I don't know, look on the webpage.

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04-29-2003 at 08:58 PM
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ErikH2000
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Sokko wrote:
Wasn't somebody already doing that? Or was it abandoned, pushed aside, or that person was you? I don't know, look on the webpage.
A couple of people were doing PocketPC, but as far as I know, not Palm. Marlok Blaker seems to have lost momentum with MiniDROD. The other fella that contacted me had a pretty good start with his version, but asked me not to announce his game yet.

-Erik

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04-29-2003 at 09:02 PM
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shurcooL
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cool, i'll start working and report on the progress here then. don't expect much though, i'm very busy w/ schoolwork and cs.

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04-30-2003 at 03:40 PM
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shurcooL
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interestingly enough, i'm back here. :)

so far i'm having a great start, pretty much got the hang of coding on my palm (starting is always the hardest part). now just need time and enthusiasm. :glasses

i have two questions (one isn't that important though):
1. all rooms in the DROD world are 38 by 32 tiles, right? if so, each tile in DROD is 14x14 pixles, and they'll be 8x8 in my version. that's not so bad, i think.
2. i downloaded the source, and see all the music, sounds and bitmaps in the Data folder - but i don't see the levels. where are they? don't tell me they're only in the dat file...

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05-19-2003 at 05:06 PM
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ErikH2000
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icon Re: Re: DROD for Palm? (+1)  
1. all rooms in the DROD world are 38 by 32 tiles, right? if so, each tile in DROD is 14x14 pixles, and they'll be 8x8 in my version. that's not so bad, i think.
Sure. Other options you have:
1. Make your own rooms with a smaller number of columns/rows. There's nothing wrong with ditching Dugan's Dungeon and giving people something fresh.
2. Use a scrollable display. For this I would also recommend making new levels from scratch.
2. i downloaded the source, and see all the music, sounds and bitmaps in the Data folder - but i don't see the levels. where are they? don't tell me they're only in the dat file...
They're only in the--oh, sorry. The levels are mostly uh... somewhat not in the dat file, in a manner of speaking, depending on how you define...

They're only in the dat file.

If you really want to use Dugan's Dungeon level data, I would recommend writing a PC utility to export the data to a format that you can easily program the Palm to read. The database is Metakit format ( www.equi4.com for info ) and I don't think Mr. Whippler has ported his database library to Palm. I wouldn't set out to port Metakit to Palm unless I had a few months to kill. JCW's library code accomplishes many tasks with a well-planned design, but it is hell to look at the internals of it and know what's going on.

Also, there is a developer secretly working on a PocketPC version. It looks like he will make new rooms--smaller than 38x32, and the ones he had looked good. If you are interested in possible collaboration, I'll ask him to contact you.

-Erik

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05-19-2003 at 06:59 PM
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ross
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Also, there is a developer secretly working on a PocketPC version. It looks like he will make new rooms--smaller than 38x32, and the ones he had looked good. If you are interested in possible collaboration, I'll ask him to contact you.

Not so secret now, I shouldn't wonder :eyes

05-19-2003 at 07:05 PM
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shurcooL
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thanks a lot for a very quick reply, Erik!

well, i guess that smaller rooms would be better, especially since people with non-hi-res screens (160x160 pixles instead of 320x320) will not like 4x4 tiles, i'm sure. the problem w/ redesigning all the levels is that... well, i'm not a creative person, and i only got to level 5 or so (then my dat file got corrupted or something... i was playing at school and accidently overwrote the new dat file w/ an old one... and u know how it is trying to beat same old rooms again - not fun). that means my levels will not only suck, but will never even get close to the level of sophistication of the original set.

however, i guess that if some1 else could design the levels for me, that'd be possible. the way to go would be to make the game and a level editor type thingy so that ppl could make levels and i'd pick good ones or something.

in that case i guess i'll have to design it so that it would be easy to add new types of monsters in.

oh well, i still have a long way to go before i have to worry about monsters, so i guess i'll just work on what i can for now.

if any1 is interested in helping me out (including the PocketPC dude :P), please pm me.

sorry, i know i talk too much. ÷(

[Edited by shurcooL on 05-19-2003 at 07:23 PM GMT: fixed a sentence that made no sense, and now i know that these boards do support private messages.]

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05-19-2003 at 07:17 PM
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ErikH2000
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ross wrote:
Not so secret now, I shouldn't wonder :eyes
Yeah, okay. But mainly I didn't say who it was.

-Erik


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05-19-2003 at 08:34 PM
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Gutter
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icon Re: DROD for Palm? (+1)  
I am making the WinCE port ;) not Palm though, you are right. I don't know much about the PalmOS. But beleive me when I say that I spend 30-45 minutes on each 16x16 map. Thats what I am doing right now. Maps. And its damn long.

14x14 tiles is a silly idea :) I wonder who came up with that. And between you and me, it makes it hard to look good on a GBA screen. LOL :) but thats another story... But still, resizing a 14x14 tiles doesn't look good.

I would recommand leaving the borders out (the obligatory 1 tile wide border around every map) and doing 11x11 maps. Just draw the exits of the room as arrows or something on the side of the map (in the 3 pixels left on each side as your playfield would be 154 pixels wide). That would give you a much needed larger map. And you *will* need it.

I tried a scrolable map. it sucks... You don't see the roaches coming. And also on such a small map, you will need to make the queen roaches spawn faster... Or its too easy.

And you can forget about the face animation (but its a bi*** to animate anyway so you are lucky there)

As for editing maps, do a map editor, or people won't help you. I know. :)

BTW my project is not secret, I just don't want to 1) dissapoint people, cause its a hobby and its going slow 2) I am working on a BE-300 device, which is a little special in the PDA world... I can't be sure it will be compatible with every device, but I ain't using any proprietary stuff yet so it should (Although I might have to for sound output. WinCE doesn't have any SDL/Miles/whatever library)

[Edited by Gutter on 05-20-2003 at 12:46 PM]
05-20-2003 at 12:43 PM
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shurcooL
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icon Re: DROD for Palm? (0)  
since this stupid piece of s**t mac (i'm at school) just ate my 3 page reply, i'll try to be short! :@

i think u misunderstood about the tiles, so i'll rephrase. DROD for PC has levels made of 38 by 32 tiles, each tile being 14x14 pixels. if i have each tile only 8x8 pixels (it doesn't look that bad at all), i could easily fit such levels. if my tiles were 14x14 pixels like in the PC version, i could fit levels that are about 20x20+ tiles. but i'm probably going to stick w/ the 38x32 levels. probably.

now, i don't know much about PocketPCs, but i'm assuming their screen is bigger.

next, i want to know what language you're using to write your DROD. i'm assuming it's ansi C/C++ that you're compiling on ur PC.

i, on the other hand, am using PocketC - "an easy-to-use development tool for Palm OS-based devices." the reason is not only that it's very well documented and easy to start working with (it is pretty much C), but also since i can compile the code right on my palm. that's very important to me, since i'm away from my computer a lot. another very important factor is that i've tested it thourougly, and so far i see absolutely no reason why it wouldn't be good enough. it's fast, easy, and very powerful (support for fast enough animation, considering DROD isn't really real-time, it's perfect; databases for levels, etc.), especially thanks to custom libraries that are (or could be) written for it (namely PToolbox - http://www.geocities.com/retro_01775/PToolboxLib.htm ). oh, almost forgot - u can find out more (and download a trial version) at http://www.orbworks.com/ .

the best part is that PocketC has version for PC (meaning u can compile code on your PC, test it on an emulator and whatnot), for a Palm, and for PocketPC! that's some pretty good cross compatability there, i would have to say.

so please tell me what you are using as ur programming language, and what kinds of levels are u using (how many tiles by how many tiles, and what are the dimensions of each tile in pixles).

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05-20-2003 at 02:23 PM
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Gutter
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oh... sorry :) I found it weird also to have 8x8 maps.

I am using 16x16 maps with 14x14 tiles. I found it easier once I understood the .tim files. I can do very good levels (if I may say so) on 16x16 maps. I have curently 4 levels done and a fifth in the work. (thats about 50 rooms)

I am doing 16x16 because as I said, I dont like scrollable map at all for that game...

I use eVC (embended VC) though, as I find its the most complete package. And its free... I use the Gapi dll that gives me access to a continuous 64k buffer to access the 240x320 screen (just like a sideway Mode13h mode in dos :))
05-21-2003 at 06:19 AM
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shurcooL
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what are .tim files?

also, it would be really helpful if someone could help me understand DROD levels better (just to make sure i got everything right). here's how i'm currently thinking of doing it. each level has a central room. each room is a certain number of tiles by another certain number of tiles (one i will have to decide). each tile has two properties: one integer to specify what kind of a tile is it (a wall? a breakable wall? a void tile? a lava tile? etc.), and another to specify what's currently on that tile (an orb, a door, a monster, etc. i might do dynamic objects like monsters differently, but these will at least have the starting positions for each dynamic entity, except the main character(s) :D ). there will also be additional rooms, each w/ a position. for example: (1, 1) means a room to the north once and east once. that kind of thing. is that everything? or am i missing anything? please help.

also, how is the... smart dude implemented? is there a certain 'path' he follows that's part of the level, or is it all in ai code? i'm talking about the 'neather (now that i've remembered his name).

edit: another one. is a yellow door (one that u can control w/ an orb) considered a type of tile, or an object on a tile? probably a type of tile, right? same for a trap-door tile (the red one... that goes void after u step off it), i'm assuming. right? right?

[Edited by shurcooL on 05-22-2003 at 02:08 AM GMT: spelling mistake + added something]

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05-22-2003 at 02:05 AM
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Gutter
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.tim files are definition files for the tiles (which are plain bmp)

You just can't parse the .bmp file for 14x14 tiles, if you check them you will see that some tiles are empty, so you would waste memory on empty tiles.

the 2 integers/tiles thing might work but its it would be more than a pain, especially when you wanna do the AI. Using a single integer map, and having a linked list or a dynamic array for the 'movable' type (which include orbs, or anything that doesn't have a fixed background, check the .bmp file to know which one)

I use myself a linked list for the movable object, one for the tiles properties (passable, wall, pit, sprite index, etc) and a 16x16 array to know which tiles go where.

I am not to the neather yet though, and surely I will have to look up the original source code when I try to implement him to emulate the original correctly. You should do the same... I had a quick glance at it for you and everything is cleanly implemented in there.

the doors are tiles yes. The trap tiles also, although they are a bitch really because of the animation they produce when you step on them...

the main map (big map) is a collection of room. I am not sure about the original drod, but I use myself a linked list (again, they are my friend) and load them all when I load the level. Thats not a good idea, I know, I should load them dynamicly, especially on a palm/wince device where the storage media is nearly as quick as the main ram, but its simpler that way. As for changing room, I only change the room index depending on where the player exited the previous room (up = y - 1, right = x + 1, etc)

Of course don't forget to keep the original layout of the room in memory, cause if the player doesn't finish the room and exit it, everything will reset in it.
05-22-2003 at 04:29 PM
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shurcooL
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Gutter wrote:
the 2 integers/tiles thing might work but its it would be more than a pain, especially when you wanna do the AI. Using a single integer map, and having a linked list or a dynamic array for the 'movable' type (which include orbs, or anything that doesn't have a fixed background, check the .bmp file to know which one)

umm... of course, i will use something other than an array of cells to represent all the dynamic monsters. i was talking about the initial state of the level. 2nd integer would be used just to put all the monsters in their initial positions, once they start moving - that will be handled elsewhere. and when i need to reload the level, i'll just use the 2nd integer values again.

how else would you know where each monster in a room is (of course u can create another database, but why not join the two)?

also, i've already seen the bmp files (glanced at, anyway), but i'm afraid i won't be able to implement a different set of tiles for each level due to technical limitations. you can only have one graphical bmp database open at the same time, so i will have to have all the graphics in one databased (instead of one for each tileset)... however, i might be able to have many tilesets in just one databased, but that wouldn't be too organised. we'll see. so far so good (atm i'm working on updating only the tiles that were modified, so that it wouldn't have to re-render each one each frame, but just those tiles that have changed).

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05-22-2003 at 10:42 PM
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Gutter
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aaaahhh the dirty rectangle method :) didn't use that in ages... I should though, it would be so much faster! but I am lazy.

But good luck on your project though :) I'll look foward to play it on my Palm emulator on my PDA :D
05-23-2003 at 04:19 AM
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Jerramy
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icon Re: DROD for Palm? (+1)  
It's been over two years since anyone's even posted to this topic. Is there any source code for PalmDROD available which I can work from, or should I just start rolling my own? Is there an Alpha version running around?

I think that this game would be an awesome addition to the games available for Palm (and is a good style for Palm's limitations). If no one is working on this anymore, I'd be happy to pick up the ball. I do have some amount of experience in programming for PalmOS (see my webpage).
06-14-2005 at 07:45 PM
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ErikH2000
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Do it, man! Code it up quick before you lose momentum like the others. :)

-Erik

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06-14-2005 at 08:21 PM
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roachman
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i dont know >>CENSORED<< about palm coding
i could do repetive work though :-)
anyway i can i will help


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[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 07-04-2005 01:09 AM : Censored swear word.]
07-04-2005 at 01:01 AM
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shurcooL wrote:
what are .tim files?

also, it would be really helpful if someone could help me understand DROD levels better (just to make sure i got everything right). here's how i'm currently thinking of doing it. each level has a central room. each room is a certain number of tiles by another certain number of tiles (one i will have to decide). each tile has two properties: one integer to specify what kind of a tile is it (a wall? a breakable wall? a void tile? a lava tile? etc.), and another to specify what's currently on that tile (an orb, a door, a monster, etc. i might do dynamic objects like monsters differently, but these will at least have the starting positions for each dynamic entity, except the main character(s) :D ). there will also be additional rooms, each w/ a position. for example: (1, 1) means a room to the north once and east once. that kind of thing. is that everything? or am i missing anything? please help.

also, how is the... smart dude implemented? is there a certain 'path' he follows that's part of the level, or is it all in ai code? i'm talking about the 'neather (now that i've remembered his name).

edit: another one. is a yellow door (one that u can control w/ an orb) considered a type of tile, or an object on a tile? probably a type of tile, right? same for a trap-door tile (the red one... that goes void after u step off it), i'm assuming. right? right?

[Edited by shurcooL on 05-22-2003 at 02:08 AM GMT: spelling mistake + added something]

ErikH2000 pls help me... i accidentaly clicked the good mod button and now all my mod points are gone....

-Insane
09-30-2005 at 08:10 PM
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ErikH2000
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Insane wrote:
ErikH2000 pls help me... i accidentaly clicked the good mod button and now all my mod points are gone....
Doohood! I had an accident like that once. It was terrible!

Post an intelligent, funny, insightful, or otherwise worthwhile reply to another post, and you will definitelymaybe get modded up--I guarantee it!

Or alternatively, I will give you 50 mod points if you will shrink your very cool, but obnoxiously distracting signature graphic to half of its current area.

Or I'll give you 10 mod points in you're willing to give up 1 rank point.

:)

If anyone thinks I'm being a jerk, please mod me down. I'm sure I deserve it.

-Erik

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10-01-2005 at 12:34 AM
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Jatopian
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ErikH2000 wrote:Or I'll give you 10 mod points in you're willing to give up 1 rank point.
I would take that offer as many times over as possible! ...I owe some people in the manner my sig mentions anyway. :|
Edit: Yay! The real power is mod points anyway.

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[Last edited by Jatopian at 10-01-2005 04:09 AM]
10-01-2005 at 01:47 AM
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Mattcrampy
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Jatopian wrote:
The real power is mod points anyway.

The real power is willpower! Say NO to drugs!

Uh... soooo, how's that Palm DROD coming along?

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10-02-2005 at 01:45 PM
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Banjooie
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ErikH2000 wrote:
*awesome*

That is /rank point city/, sir.
10-03-2005 at 09:09 AM
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ErikH2000 wrote:
Or alternatively, I will give you 50 mod points if you will shrink your very cool, but obnoxiously distracting signature graphic to half of its current area.
Is this better? it's a fourth maybe even a fifth of the original size :D

-Insane
10-03-2005 at 01:38 PM
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ErikH2000
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Insane wrote:
Is this better? it's a fourth maybe even a fifth of the original size :D
Aw man, now I feel sad. I didn't want you to get rid of it entirely, since obviously some work was put into it. But anyhow, a deal's a deal. I'll go give you some mod points.

-Erik

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10-03-2005 at 06:03 PM
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Insane
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Oh well i don't really care.
Besides i like the new one too

-Insane
10-04-2005 at 05:24 PM
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shurcooL
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Hmmm... It sure has been a while, eh? Lol. I'm still alive though. Surprisingly.

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07-25-2006 at 05:05 PM
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