Dex Stewart
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The version I have is the one posted with this post:

Nuntar wrote:
OK, I've fixed the music and made further small adjustments to Level 1.

So, I mean, it may not be the latest, but nothing significant seems to have changed.

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[Last edited by Dex Stewart at 11-21-2008 05:39 PM]

Nuntar
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It is possible to reach ATK 70 if you beat Daniel before the Brains; is that what you did?

Otherwise the available ATK should be as follows:

Initial 10
Sword 10
First floor south 10
Second floor south 18
Third floor south 12
Second floor central 10

Total 70, only attainable by taking all ATK gems including 3: 8S2W

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Dex Stewart
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Yeah, I beat Daniel before the brains. Still, it doesn't feel normal that I should now be able to have so much HP.

Nuntar
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I'm going to remove the HP vendor on Level 4 as a precautionary measure but I don't see what I can do about Level 3. All the monsters that are the right strength to pose a problem to normal players at that stage of the game have 68 as a threshold. I can't really change that, as I don't want to tamper with monsters' stats when the player will expect them to be the same as in other holds.

Anyway, having so much HP so early does allow you to defeat the Todal before the Royal Guard, which will (when I've built it) open up a new area you wouldn't otherwise be able to visit.

Do you remember how much ATK you had after beating Daniel? I'm wondering whether I should change the number of gems on Level 1 so that reaching the 68 threshold becomes something you can only do after going most of the way round the pit.

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50th Skywatcher

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-21-2008 06:02 PM]

Nuntar
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New version's up HP merchant on Level 4 removed, replaced with an orb that now must be hit to reach 8S, so the 800 HP potion there is harder to get.

First new post-Royal Guard area added. Have fun with the tar!

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Dex Stewart
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I defeated Daniel with 64 ATT.

Dex Stewart
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The script in 3F 1S 2E keeps asking me every turn wether I want to drink the elixir (latest version). You might want to fix that.

Nuntar
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Thank you for spotting -- fixed now.

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Dex Stewart
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You should definitely put vision tokens in the rooms with walls under tar. Mazes under tar are still considered annoying.

Nuntar
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That would take away the puzzle I find those rooms fun to complete, and if someone else doesn't, nothing's forcing you to find out that there really is a Tar Mother causing the tar to grow (which surely isn't going to be much of a shock!)

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Blondbeard
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Dex Stewart wrote:
You should definitely put vision tokens in the rooms with walls under tar. Mazes under tar are still considered annoying.

I agree. It drops the fun factor something imensly with tar covering walls.

Nuntar
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Tar puzzles: the case for the defence

I promise I won't do any more puzzles like this, but this is a tar-themed area, so omitting this puzzle would make it incomplete. However, as a compromise I've added vision tokens to 1S6E and 1S7E -- not at the beginnings of the rooms, of course, but they're not too hard to reach. Anyone who needs their hand held through 1S5E shouldn't be playing this hold.

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Blondbeard
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Meh! You're the boss, though. Happy news!(?) The goblin king can be beaten with the short sword. And I was happy to be able to scout my route with the help of the editor (my privalige as a tester).

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 11-22-2008 02:55 PM]

Dex Stewart
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By the way, where's this mythical Goblin Biter that has been mentioned earlier?

Nuntar
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In an area yet to be built, I'm afraid. I'm also going to add an area to Level 4 centred around Hobgoblins -- stronger enemies who also have goblin weakness -- so that finding it will be very worthwhile.

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Dex Stewart
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Are you planning to make it possible to get the Goblin Biter without getting the Short Sword?

Nuntar
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Interesting question! It's intended that players will get the Short Sword, but knowing you and Blondbeard, I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of you manages to do it without, and if that does turn out to be possible, I'll leave it in and even make sure there's a reward for doing it in some way.

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Nuntar
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New version uploaded -- I've switched 1N6E and 1N7E around and severely decreased the amount of HP available from the tar rooms, so that if you haven't got the short sword yet it's still possibly worth entering this wing to get gems from (what is now) 1N6E, but you have to stop there -- whereas if you have the sword you can continue through 1N7E, but there isn't so much HP that it becomes a pushover.

I also altered the layout of 6E, as I didn't think it was very interesting.

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[Last edited by Nuntar at 11-23-2008 02:54 AM]

Blondbeard
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I think it might be best to leave the tar alone in that case, but I'll look into it later. You DO have to kill quite a lot of babies in order to progress. And sometimes you have to kill even more on your way back.

Nuntar
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Yes, I noticed afterwards that the backward journeys were more intensive than the forward, but I've added other ways of going back. On 1N5E I moved the lower-right blob so you can cut it from the other side to get back. On 1N6E I added a one-way bridge (made one-way by having the trapdoor at the far end diagonally adjacent). On 1N7E and 1S5E I put in passages with force arrows. 1S6E and 1S7E shouldn't present too much difficulty in returning.

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Blondbeard
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Nuntar wrote:
Yes, I noticed afterwards that the backward journeys were more intensive than the forward, but I've added other ways of going back. On 1N5E I moved the lower-right blob so you can cut it from the other side to get back. On 1N6E I added a one-way bridge (made one-way by having the trapdoor at the far end diagonally adjacent).

Since you haven't uploaded a new version I can't check it out, but it sounds like a bad idea, since I usually wants to go back and forth. What's wrong with arrowed passages for going back?

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[Last edited by Blondbeard at 11-23-2008 01:49 PM]

Nuntar
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Hmm? I thought I had uploaded it. Anyway, it should be the new version now; as a check, the new version has an empty room on Third Level: 2N1E.

And the answer is that there wasn't space for arrowed passages on 1N7E with the room as it is, thanks to the pit in the middle; however, I've altered the lower-left tar blob so that you can get back across the room a second time once you've cut the large tar blob all the way to the lower-right; you just need to cut one more tar baby to do this, so I've placed some extra medium potions to compensate for this. If the bridge is really disliked I could replace the pit with a wall and have an orb in the lower-right opening a passage through the wall, but I like the pit as an aesthetic feature.

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Dex Stewart
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I have to ask... what's with the yellow door in 4F 5S 1E? It's kinda... useless.

Nuntar
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I clearly hadn't got very far with Tendry's Tale when I built that room I'll fix it soon.

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Nuntar
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Update!

Fixed the yellow door just mentioned, but more importantly, I've added a new wing to Level 3. (It's not complete, but you can at least reach the boss fight.) Have fun!

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Dex Stewart
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File: Ahem.jpg (170.6 KB)
Downloaded 69 times.
License: Public Domain

See attachment .

Nuntar
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Fixed I do have a dangerous habit of leaving those things lying about, don't I?

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Lamkin
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What are some decent stats to have once you first set foot on the Third Floor?
My stats are:
HP 420
ATK 36
DEF 10

Nuntar
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Lamkin wrote:
What are some decent stats to have once you first set foot on the Third Floor?
My stats are:
HP 420
ATK 36
DEF 10

Mine were 570 - 36 - 14. But please keep going from where you are; I want to see how different players manage so that I can make the hold a good experience for everyone.

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Blondbeard
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Somethings messed up with the second guard training area. I think the red doors for proceeding, and picking up the gem and potion should be closed to begin with. Also: Did you know that nifty manouvering can save you from the extra hit from the swords? That's a quite nice feature, even if it might be unintended.