NiroZ
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Basically, there isn't enough saves. F5 is useful, but sometimes I walk into a new room and go 'arg, I should have taken the other entrace', and the ablity to reload a save not too far distance would be a boon.

5 moves might be a good average, and then the user can change it to whatever they like.

Insane
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NiroZ wrote:
'arg, I should have taken the other entrace'

Let me guess..

Rule 3: 4N?

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[Last edited by Insane at 09-13-2008 06:39 PM]

Sillyman
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Actually, this feature request would be for implementing autosaves that aren't script-triggered. See, in any hold, the game autosaves when an NPC tells it to. But yeah, it might be nice to have an option to autosave every new room discovered/monster fought/few room changes/etc.

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mrimer
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That would probably make the size of your save file balloon, but I guess if you don't mind it...

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

NiroZ
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Perhaps it could be limited by only keeping the last 3-5 autosaves of this sort.

Briareos
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mrimer wrote:
That would probably make the size of your save file balloon, but I guess if you don't mind it...

Wouldn't it be possible to just save the differences from the last save? Deleting a save would then of course mean adding it's data to the following save before deleting it, or just hiding it from the list.

But what would be killer would be a way of differentiating saves from different play-throughs, like putting them in folders in the list grouped by the time the game was started or something...

np: Capracara - Flashback 86 (Soul Jazz Records Singles 2006-2007 (Disc 2))

____________________________
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Fafnir
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Briareos wrote:
Wouldn't it be possible to just save the differences from the last save? Deleting a save would then of course mean adding it's data to the following save before deleting it, or just hiding it from the list.

I'd be inclined to keep at least some redundancy, or one corrupted savefile could hose an entire playthrough. But it seems like a good idea, if the format can be made to support it.

But what would be killer would be a way of differentiating saves from different play-throughs, like putting them in folders in the list grouped by the time the game was started or something...

Seconded.

____________________________
Stupidity kills.
Absolute stupidity
Kills absolutely.

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[Last edited by Fafnir at 09-14-2008 12:07 PM]

mrimer
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Sure, these things are possible. Not sure how much dev time would be required to implement and debug these solutions, though. For us, since resources are limited, it's a numbers game (heh, just like in the actual game) of what to work on: what will be the most beneficial to the most players.

I'll see what I can do.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

jdyer
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mrimer wrote:
That would probably make the size of your save file balloon, but I guess if you don't mind it...

I'm having to save that often manually anyway.

Autosave definitely should be tweakable though. (on/off and frequency) I seem to be doing fine with manual so I don't need the extra saves.

silver
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from a least-development-time-most-problems-solved perspective, it seems a slider going from "2-10-never" controlling how often you want autosaves on the game preferences would be ideal. as a guess. then leave it to people who tweak the slider to decide how much data-file bloat they want by manually deleting their autosaves (much as we do in regular drod with redundant demos) or turning the slider up higher.



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[Last edited by silver at 09-15-2008 05:07 AM]

Someone Else
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Turning... a slider?

zex20913
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I'm also suspecting that the major DROD crowd is so used to the autosave that we're not really coming to grips with manual saves just yet. I think within a week or so, many of us will be more used to the system, have fewer complaints about manual saving, and less demand for autosaves.

I'm finding myself on that path right now.

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Tim
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I've been playing this game longer than most people, and perhaps it's just this hold, but if I want better stats I usually walk back levels rather than rooms. Autosaves every other room is not useful if the rooms are this small.

Besides, since you are going to replay rooms more often than DROD, autosaves makes you end up with even more clutter from other replays anyway. I usually find myself already scrolling the vast saves list in order to find the correct save, so I don't think autosave is going to help at all.

At least not until the save screen gets an upgrade first.

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mrimer
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I myself think NPC-implemented autosave points at appropriate locations along the way would be best and avoids clutter since the autosave will overwrite itself whenever you use it again, just like regular DROD checkpoints. I would've done this in the official hold, but I guess we didn't think of it at the time since this particular save system is new in the DROD world.

I can provide the checkpoint graphic and a script if architects want to use it to design checkpoint save spots in their own holds.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 09-16-2008 03:41 AM]

zex20913
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I think that everything you just said would rock.

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kyevan
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Can we get some form of autosave, though, every time you enter a room (only keeping the newest one) for crash recovery? It's REALLY ANNOYING when the game crashes two steps before the end of the level and you have to redo the whole thing.

mrimer
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kyevan wrote:
Can we get some form of autosave, though, every time you enter a room (only keeping the newest one) for crash recovery? It's REALLY ANNOYING when the game crashes two steps before the end of the level and you have to redo the whole thing.

Uh...if the game crashes, that's a bug and I'd like to fix it. I'm not planning to support feature requests that try to symptomatically treat bugs, rather than just fixing the bugs themselves.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

kyevan
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The crash isn't necesarily always the game's fault, though. It could be an OS issue, or a power outage, or a little brother tripping over the cord, or a cat trying to eat your laptop and standing on the power button too long.

Briareos
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kyevan wrote:
The crash isn't necesarily always the game's fault, though. It could be an OS issue

Right.

or a power outage, or a little brother tripping over the cord, or a cat trying to eat your laptop and standing on the power button too long.

Well, there's a slight but probably very visible difference here:

Crash == sad mac/blue screen of death/kernel panic etc.
Power Outage == sad user/black screen of emptiness/kernel loss etc.



____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

silver
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sadly, a game suffers the same problems of any text editor or spreadsheet - it behooves the user to save their progress if their power or OS is unstable :/


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Insane
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silver wrote:
[...] if their power or OS is unstable :/

Or their little brother.

On topic, this would actually be a good idea, auto-saving on every room entrance, although if you quick save a lot crashes shouldn't be a problem.

-Insane

Briareos
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Insane wrote:
On topic, this would actually be a good idea, auto-saving on every room entrance, although if you quick save a lot crashes shouldn't be a problem.

As long as that gets it's own autosave slot apart from the script-triggered autosaves, why not?

Although it should probably only save every minute or so so having to go back and forth between two rooms (*cough*mimics*cough*) doesn't cause a save every second or so...

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

NiroZ
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Note. I've just tried optimising a level, and this is needed as it is so tedius playing through a room, going oh, I could have saved 5 hp there, restart. Oh damn, missed that bit, restart. Oh, forgot about that room, restart. I've having too much fun to remember to save every second manually.

I could go on. It almost expects you to sit down with a pen and paper, print out all the rooms, and manually calculate the most efficient route (not my idea of fun, I like the sense of adventure and exploration of trial and error ). Which up until this point I've managed to avoid with all DROD games (and games in general). Then again, there were some rooms in KDD which came close.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 09-19-2008 03:49 PM]

Tahnan
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NiroZ wrote:
Note. I've just tried optimising a level, and this is needed....

Isn't "this is needed for optimizing" the argument against Unlimited Undo in JtRH/TCB?

Beef Row
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Tahnan wrote:

NiroZ wrote:
Note. I've just tried optimising a level, and this is needed....

Isn't "this is needed for optimizing" the argument against Unlimited Undo in JtRH/TCB?

Sure, but autosaves in some of the places that you *could* have saved anyway doesn't exactly resemble unlimited undo, while the ability to save at any time does.

Also, I think part of the arguement there was that there were years worth of scores which were earned without this advantage, so it wouldn't be a fully level playing field. Here, that isn't an issue.

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worm
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Actually is there any particular reason the save system isn't the same as DROD?

I mean that would be perfect, if two rooms ago I started on a path to a monster I couldn't defeat then I'd just click on the room before I took that path. I guess the entire level is supposed to be viewed as one puzzle, or something.

Though I just hated the demo as is and really don't want to constantly save just in case I'm walking toward something I don't have the numbers to defeat.

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[Last edited by worm at 10-04-2008 08:05 PM]