Funk
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

File: MPD.hold (55.4 KB)
Downloaded 86 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

Difficulty ranges from trivial to boring. Feedback appreciated.
(By the way, can someone tell me how to order the demos on the title screen?)
EDIT: Nevermind about the demo thing. They seemed to sort themselves out after I exported.

[Edited by Funk on 04-12-2004 at 02:07 AM GMT]

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1978
Registered: 10-23-2003
IP: Logged

I haven't actually played this, but I was looking at it in the editor and wondering if you playtested it. Level 9 1S1W is impossible, yet required. Fubar is a pretty level, but the idea of actually playing through with the intent of conquering it makes me want to throw up.

So have you played through this whole thing by yourself yet? I don't mean to sound mean, I'm just wondering.

____________________________
http://beepsandbloops.wordpress.com/

Funk
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

RoboBob3000 wrote:So have you played through this whole thing by yourself yet? I don't mean to sound mean, I'm just wondering.

No problem. I have tested all levels. In 9: 1S1W, it is possible to kill the snake. Level four also has a secret exit early into it in case all the tar turns you off.

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1978
Registered: 10-23-2003
IP: Logged

Ah, I got it. I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. My apologies.

____________________________
http://beepsandbloops.wordpress.com/

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

One room that is giving me trouble is Tar Revisited 2N2E. I can't see how to go through the south-west corridor. For the mimic to toggle both orbs, the serpent needs to be alive. The problem is you have to kill it (and solve the room) to be able to reach that mimic. Since this corridor is the only way to the wraithwings in 2N1E, I can't solve that either.

Fubar is a pretty good level although I must admit I used the editor to see the solution for the exit room.


The level I would absolutely hate to play again is actually The Anticlimax. While this level introduces some very original concepts I feel the point could be made just as well with smaller rooms. They're too repetitive. I'm thinking in particular of:
- 1N and particularly 2N. Placing mimics get boring after a few.
- 5N, endless QW. My fingers really ached after that one.
- 7N and particularly 8N.
- and 7N1W where it's so easy to make a mistake following that snake tail.

I enjoyed the other rooms in that level. Neat trick with the goblin in 4N.

Grand Finale(L9) 1S1W is possible, although it exploits an unexpected quirk of DROD. To me, it's more like a bug.

I enjoyed the hold overall. I still have a few rooms to complete (I used the warp rooms to skip them), but I was disappointed to find that the final stairs sent me back to the beginning.

Funk
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

gds wrote:
One room that is giving me trouble is Tar Revisited 2N2E...

Perhaps a scroll with a hint is needed in that room? You may have to restore to the previous room.

gds wrote:
The level I would absolutely hate to play again is actually The Anticlimax.

I will probably make this level not required and/or more tolerable in the next release.

gds wrote:
I enjoyed the hold overall. I still have a few rooms to complete (I used the warp rooms to skip them), but I was disappointed to find that the final stairs sent me back to the beginning.

If only you had continued. That level was my final "trick". Although, looking back it seems pretty pointless. I'll probably delete it.
Thanks for the feedback!

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

Funk wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×You have to make tar babies after killing the snake in order to prevent the room from being counted as complete.

Of course! Why didn't I think of that ?

Perhaps a scroll with a hint is needed in that room? You may have to restore to the previous room.

You definitively need a scroll there. I've completed all the other rooms (16 rooms). Having to restore that early in the level is not a nice prospect. Although I had a hunch I was going to have to do that.
I would actually suggest modifying 1N2E so that you're forced back to 2N2E and forced to solve the mimic puzzle before being able to continue any further. Perharps, making 2N2E unsolvable when accessed from the north, and adding another entrance coming from 2N1E from which you can solve the room would do?

If only you had continued. That level was my final "trick". Although, looking back it seems pretty pointless. I'll probably delete it.

Sorry, you lost me here. Continued what ?
Ah ! I see now. Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

joker5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 607
Registered: 11-25-2003
IP: Logged

Quarters 3n seems paradoxical... if you get the potion you can't get the other potion 'cause the tar can't grow(or grows too far)... and if you don't get the potion the tar grows too far again...

~joker5

____________________________
Criminals, like other people, dislike being shot. ~FBI study on guns

www.badgerbadgerbadger.com

"Two words: Beam Waffle!" -me

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

joker5 wrote:
Quarters 3n seems paradoxical... if you get the potion you can't get the other potion 'cause the tar can't grow(or grows too far)... and if you don't get the potion the tar grows too far again...

Quarters 3N is a very nice puzzle.

If that's not enough:

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

Its actually not that hard.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

thats the level I am at


I loved the idea of not being able to turn your sword and not being able to move diagonal

right now I am stuck at 3N1E

so far I can kill 1 of the queens but I am still getting 21 roachs per wave and can't seem to make it into any other section
seems like I need to find a way to kill at least 1 more queen at the start

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

I am not sure about that 3N1E. The room is not required though so I never solved it.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

apparently it is impossible to complete this level
2n1e is required and you cannot get to the room without passing a blue door in 3n1e

also why are all the demos of dying?

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

2N1E is required yes but you can get to it without passing the blue door. I have completed all levels except the last one so far.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

either I have a different version of this hold from you or there is a 3rd way into that room that I just can't see
entering from the south is a trap
you can't go back
entering from the north is the blue door

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

swann_88 wrote:
either I have a different version of this hold from you or there is a 3rd way into that room that I just can't see
entering from the south is a trap

Entering from the south, you can get out, as long as you don't go any further.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

that shouldn't work
wonder why it does?

Funk
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

File: MPD.hold (55.4 KB)
Downloaded 75 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified

What's new:

A few filler puzzles replaced.
Levels 6 and 8 transposed.
'Last' level removed.
Level 7 modified as suggested by gds.
Actual ending text.
Lost the demos. (for now)
Backtracking in level 4 now possible.

Completely untouched levels: 1,5,6 (was 8)

[Edited by Funk on 03-17-2004 at 07:12 PM GMT: darn 8) emoticon]

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Level 2 2N is giving me a problem. I can reach the middle orb easy enough, but then I always go down screaming. Is it just a matter of stepping lightly, or am I missing something?

Funk
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

Sorry folks. The attachment on the first post wasn't changed when I updated. It should be fixed now.

bandit1200 wrote:
Level 2 2N is giving me a problem...

All I can suggest is to be as efficient as possible. You can also go for the tar mother first, though that may be more difficult.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Going for the tar mother turned out to be a much easier option for me. Not that it's done me much good. I can only manage to kill one goblin in 3N, the northern one, (or both, depending how I go about it), getting behind the force arrows. I'd already spent some time in the editor on this one too. Heheh, such are the vagaries of DROD.

Edit: I just noticed you posted a new version. What are the differences from the one I got on the 17th?

[Edited by bandit1200 on 03-25-2004 at 08:54 AM GMT]

Funk
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

bandit1200 wrote:I just noticed you posted a new version. What are the differences from the one I got on the 17th?

I accidently didn't change the first attachment when I updated on 3-17. If you downloaded the attachment about halfway down the page, you're okay. Otherwise you should get the new one. See my 3-17 post for the changes.

As for 3N, one goblin will always enter the arrow cage.
Hint:
Solution:

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

3N: It is actually possible to move so that neither goblins nor wraithwings enter the cage. I am not sure however if it is possible to kill them all without forcing at least one monster into the cage.

I have now completed every room in this hold and I think it is very good.

The modification you've made to Tar revisited wasn't what I had in mind but it works well except that if you leave 1N1E by the east after completing it, you're blocked. You might want a green door in place of the wall that you put to replace the tar.

Similarly, in Fubar, if you complete 3S2E and leave north without having completed 2S2E, you're stuck.

I thank you for those extra savepoints in the anticlimax 7N1W. They make the room more bearable. I still think you could shorten 8N (I just left a weight on my 5 key and left the computer for a few minutes) and 2N. The concept is great, they're just too repetitive being that big. I really like 7N on this level and the new 3N had me stumped for a while.

Talking of savepoints Grand finale 1E could do with one (maybe left of the spiral). The main problem on this level is that the stairs send me back to the start of the level. I'm starting to worry that it is a problem with my data file as it happens to me on plenty of holds.

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Funk wrote: I accidently didn't change the first attachment when I updated on 3-17. If you downloaded the attachment about halfway down the page, you're okay. Otherwise you should get the new one. See my 3-17 post for the changes

Thanks, I got the one halfway down the page.

gds wrote: 3N: It is actually possible to move so that neither goblins nor wraithwings enter the cage. I am not sure however if it is possible to kill them all without forcing at least one monster into the cage.

So I am not going mad then! The first time I tried this one in the editor a few days ago, I was sure I'd managed to keep both goblins outside the arrows, and I'd been trying ever since to figure out how I did it. I've tried that many times since that I began to wonder if I dreamt (dreamed?) it.

Funk
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 17
Registered: 03-06-2004
IP: Logged

gds wrote:
The modification you've made to Tar revisited wasn't what I had in mind but it works well except that if you leave 1N1E by the east after completing it, you're blocked. You might want a green door in place of the wall that you put to replace the tar.

Sounds reasonable.

gds wrote:
Similarly, in Fubar, if you complete 3S2E and leave north without having completed 2S2E, you're stuck.

Shouldn't you be able to get through the breakable wall next to the orb in 3S2E?

gds wrote:
I thank you for those extra savepoints in the anticlimax 7N1W. They make the room more bearable. I still think you could shorten 8N (I just left a weight on my 5 key and left the computer for a few minutes) and 2N. The concept is great, they're just too repetitive being that big. I really like 7N on this level and the new 3N had me stumped for a while.

Take a closer look at 8N.

gds wrote:
The main problem on this level is that the stairs send me back to the start of the level. I'm starting to worry that it is a problem with my data file as it happens to me on plenty of holds.

I just checked and the stairs were pointing at level 9. Oops.

Regarding level 2 3N: It would be nice if anyone could get a demo of the unintended solution. I probably won't change it. I'm just curious.

Expect the 2nd and hopefully final edit soon.


EDIT:
I must be going crazy too. Using the editor, I solved 2:3N without letting any monsters into the arrows. Now when I try to record a demo, I can't even keep the goblin away from them. There must be some sort of conspiracy.

[Edited by Funk on 03-25-2004 at 10:37 PM GMT: insanity]

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

Funk wrote: I must be going crazy too. Using the editor, I solved 2:3N without letting any monsters into the arrows. Now when I try to record a demo, I can't even keep the goblin away from them. There must be some sort of conspiracy

There's definitely something strange happening. I just tried it 10 times each in both the game and the editor, and this time neither of the goblins crossed the force arrows unless I made them. In fact, it has suddenly become very easy to kill both goblins. I'm struggling with the serpents though.

Edit: I don't know if it was the intended solution, but

[Edited by bandit1200 on 03-26-2004 at 07:42 AM GMT]

gds
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 50
Registered: 02-06-2004
IP: Logged

Funk, yes sorry about Fubar 3S2E.

As for the goblins, in the thread about monster mouvement, Bibelot said that there was some randomness involved in the way brained goblin moved (in particular, in regard to force arrows).
Indeed, the first time I entered the room I tried all I could to stop them going into the arrow cage, in vain. The second time they almost always avoided it.
I don't think you need to change the room because killing them without them (or the wraithwings) entering the force arrows seems to be much harder than the intended way.

[Edited by gds on 04-01-2004 at 05:14 AM GMT: spelling]

bandit1200
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 290
Registered: 10-29-2003
IP: Logged

gds wrote:As for the goblins, in the thread about monster mouvement, Bibelot said that there was some randomness involved in the way brained goblin moved (in partiularl, in regard to force arrows).
Indeed, the first time I entered the room I tried all I could to stop them going into the arrow cage, in vain. The second time they almost always avoided it.
I don't think you need to change the room because killing them without them (or the wraithwings) entering the force arrows seems to be much harder than the intended way.

I completed the room both ways and found it much easier when the goblins didn't get behind the force arrows. "Easier" is a relative term of course as I'd become familiar with the room. I agree that the room doesn't need changing though, as there is a solution both ways.

swann_88
Level: Delver

Rank Points: 87
Registered: 06-29-2003
IP: Logged

the first time I solved the room it took me 14 tries before the goblins stayed out of the force arrows actually the very first time the goblins stayed out of the arrows but I died

this time I was over 20 tries when I read this

Scott
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 578
Registered: 02-12-2003
IP: Logged

gds wrote:
Bibelot said that there was some randomness involved in the way brained goblin moved

I thought the whole thing about drod was that it was 100% predictable as it there is no randomness. A player should be able to determine exactly what a move would produce before doing it.