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swann_88
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
voids once south is cruel
Click here to view the secret text

02-28-2004 at 01:25 AM
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Scott
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You definately didn't drag the mimic down there for nothing. Try doing it without the mimic and you will see.
02-28-2004 at 02:53 AM
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swann_88
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duh couldn't see the force arrow when I was finished and forgot it was there
02-28-2004 at 04:30 AM
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Nillo
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
Version 2 now available! See first post.
Fixed Palace, you can now go back if you went west too soon.

Added a SECRET.
PM me if you want hints.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
03-24-2004 at 08:37 PM
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Nillo
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Seems like no one has found my Secret yet (or if they did, they did'nt confirm me).
So, here's some hints for everyone.
I recommend that you think carefully after each one.

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

Click here to view the secret text

You probably don't need more hints than that.

I need some feedback/suggestions before I put it in the Holds section.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
03-26-2004 at 12:10 PM
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gds
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
I finished the first version of your hold a while ago. I've downloaded your new version and when I try to import it I get:
The hold being imported is the same or an older version of an existing hold.

Did you upload the right file ?
03-26-2004 at 04:37 PM
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Nillo
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
Oh.
That might be my computer clock's fault, 'cause I reset it to January 1st 2002 some time ago. Don't ask me why.

I'll post a working version soon.

Edit: See the first post for fixed version.

[Edited by Nillo on 03-26-2004 at 07:05 PM GMT]

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
03-26-2004 at 06:11 PM
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gds
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I've found the secret level. I wouldn't have found it without your hint and I don't think many people would. Maybe you should put a hint scroll in the room with the stairs. Something like:
Click here to view the secret text


There's a problem with the secret level. You can't go back to the entrance from 2S.

Apart from that everything is fine although I think that 2S1W on the secret level could do with a few checkpoints.

[Edited by gds on 03-29-2004 at 10:03 AM GMT]
03-29-2004 at 11:02 AM
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Nillo
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Thanks for the feedback.
I'll fix the problems when I get home.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
03-29-2004 at 12:02 PM
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Nillo
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
Version 2.3 now available!
See first post for more information.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
04-03-2004 at 08:58 AM
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agaricus5
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I've had some time now to pick this hold up and give it a little play. From what I've seen of it, it's a nice hold, not very difficult (although that's only relative to me), but it has many interesting and quitefun puzzles in it.

I have seen the secret level, or at least one quarter of it, but I'll give more in-depth feedback once I finish the hold.

One thing I have noticed is that in Catacombs, 3E, if you enter the room to the east via the bottom entrance, you can't go in via the top one because of the tar (I think, unless there's something I'm missing in 4E).

So, to repeat myself a little, I think the hold so far is quite a nice hold, quite fun, and not too difficult as yet (Even some of the rooms in the secret level aren't much harder). As soon as I've finished, I'll give a more thorough review.

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04-03-2004 at 12:52 PM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (+2)  
Phew!

I've just completed the hold, Nillo (well as far as I know - the exit stairs for Sanctum take me back to the start of the level), and it's been quite a lot of fun.

Here are some comments (Quite spoiler-ish, so don't look if you haven't finished it):

Click here to view the secret text



Overall, this hold is a fun hold, mostly easy to moderate difficulty with some nice puzzles and quirks in it,, although there are one or two rooms that are exceptions and quite difficult. I'd recommend it to anyone about up to level 20-22 in King Dugan's Dungeon as it is about the same sort of difficulty, although there are challenging rooms in this hold for more advanced players as well.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-03-2004 at 02:49 PM GMT]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-03-2004 at 03:03 PM GMT]

[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-03-2004 at 03:36 PM GMT]

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04-03-2004 at 03:48 PM
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Nillo
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Whoa, that's a lot of feedback!
Thank you very much! :)

Unfortunately, I'm in a hurry right now.
I'll answer and make changes later.
See ya.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
04-03-2004 at 05:51 PM
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gds
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This is a reply for Nillo as much as for Agaricus. I'm not going to comment on the difficulty, because after playing this old for the third time, I breeze through most of the rooms.

First of all, I didn't notice any change in Lava, what were they ?

Agaricus, yes you're missing something in Catacombs 4E.

Top Level, 1S2E. Agaricus comment and the presence of the trapdoor makes me wonder if I haven't found an unintended solution for the mimic:
Click here to view the secret text

In Palace and Catacombs, I'd like the secret rooms to be more rewarding (Thanks to Agaricus for pointing out the secret on Catacombs, I had missed it).

Click here to view the secret text

Agaricus, there's no Palace 2E. I think you meant 1N1E.

The change to the secret level 3S does make it more challenging, but I miss the humour of the scroll. Maybe you could put the original 3S in the top level ?

Finally, the stair bug has striked again. All the end stairs send me back to the start of the level.
04-03-2004 at 06:40 PM
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agaricus5
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gds wrote:
Agaricus, there's no Palace 2E. I think you meant 1N1E.

So I did. And I also missed 1W...

Click here to view the secret text


[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-03-2004 at 05:54 PM GMT]

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04-03-2004 at 06:51 PM
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DiMono
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
Gah! Um, Agaricus, could you please close that secret tag?

Edit: heh, I just tried to close it myself, and succeeded, but then my post was all squished to the left. It was pretty funny.

[Edited by DiMono on 04-03-2004 at 05:55 PM GMT]

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Deploy the... I think it's a yellow button... it's usually flashing... it makes the engines go... WHOOSH!
04-03-2004 at 06:53 PM
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Nillo
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agaricus5 wrote:
Phew!

I've just completed the hold, Nillo (well as far as I know - the exit stairs for Sanctum take me back to the start of the level), and it's been quite a lot of fun.

Here are some comments (Quite spoiler-ish, so don't look if you haven't finished it):
Agh, I missed checking the stairs before I exported 2.3.
Thanks for noticing.

Top Level
[3S] - Why would this room make me crazy? - There isn't anything in it!
Mainly because of the extreme assymetry and total meaninglessness of the room design.
1S 1W - Hmm... I think the scroll is correct here.
I agree.
[1E/2W] - I can see there is some "secret" I missed, but I couldn't see any way to reach it. Is 2W a red herring?
Click here to view the secret text

Lava
[5N/6N] - Is there a secret here? I followed the crumbly walls, but didn't find anything.
Click here to view the secret text

Catacombs
1E - This was quite a nice room - taking advantage of horde movements in different directions was quite unexpected.
Huh? Did you manage to finish the room without the
Click here to view the secret text
or what?
Secret Level
2S 1W - Arrrgh! Tar babies everywhere... and brained! This was very difficult, I can assure you. Dodging them in the original was bad, but this was many times worse. However, it was also many times more fun.
To tell the truth,
Click here to view the secret text

2W - The trapdoors were quite a lot harder to remove this time, mainly because they were not in such a regular shape. Again, I do not think the scroll is quite accurate - the Red Door was not quite permanent.
Well, you could walk through there as much as you wanted after you had dropped all the trapdoors, right?
1S 2W - The introduction of Brains here also made getting Serpents where I wanted them even more tricky. Quite unpleasant, but fun.
Unpleasant, but fun? Now I'm confused.
Sanctum
1N 1E - The goblins here were a bit tricky to keep in control, but if you've played Dugan's Dungeon L14, then this room would not be too difficult to complete.
I have'nt played L14 yet, actually.
Overall, this hold is a fun hold, mostly easy to moderate difficulty with some nice puzzles and quirks in it,, although there are one or two rooms that are exceptions and quite difficult. I'd recommend it to anyone about up to level 20-22 in King Dugan's Dungeon as it is about the same sort of difficulty, although there are challenging rooms in this hold for more advanced players as well.
As I said, I have'nt finished Dugan's yet. I'm on L12.
Not that I've got stuck or something, it's just that I don't have time to play it through right now. I'll get to it.

Thanks again for all your feedback, I'll make another version soon.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
04-04-2004 at 07:00 PM
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agaricus5
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Nillo wrote:
Catacombs
1E - This was quite a nice room - taking advantage of horde movements in different directions was quite unexpected.
Huh? Did you manage to finish the room without the
Click here to view the secret text
or what?

Crumbly Wall? What Crumbly Wall?

What?! There is one?! Let me see.

Oh. There it is...
Click here to view the secret text


Grrr...

:)

Secret Level
2S 1W - Arrrgh! Tar babies everywhere... and brained! This was very difficult, I can assure you. Dodging them in the original was bad, but this was many times worse. However, it was also many times more fun.
To tell the truth,
Click here to view the secret text

Tut tut, Nillo. You should always playtest your rooms properly.

I, however, am also occasionally guilty of this. :D

1S 2W - The introduction of Brains here also made getting Serpents where I wanted them even more tricky. Quite unpleasant, but fun.
Unpleasant, but fun? Now I'm confused.
After playing many holds and rooms, you may notice that there are certain kinds of rooms you are not very good at, and for me, Serpent rooms like this are one of those types. For me, they are a bit unpleasant because I don't like them at first glance. However, instead of being merely frustrated at something like this because I'm not too good at it, I still know enough about serpents to make a guess about how the method should work. So I become frustrated at not knowing exactly how it works, but then this make me challenge myself to find a solution and understand better how the room works. Doing and completing the room therefore makes me feel better about it, and perhaps even like it somewhat, therefore making it fun for me.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 04-04-2004 at 07:56 PM GMT]

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04-04-2004 at 08:55 PM
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Nillo
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
I'd really like a victory demo of Catacombs 1E without using the crumbly wall, because it seems impossible to me.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
04-04-2004 at 09:18 PM
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agaricus5
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File: Dungeon1 Catacombs 1E Victory.demo (674 bytes)
Downloaded 55 times.
License: Other
From: Unspecified
icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
Here it is.

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04-04-2004 at 09:38 PM
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Nillo
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What can I say, pretty cool!
I'll remove the crumbly wall for the next version.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
04-05-2004 at 06:34 AM
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Nillo
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
Version 3 now available for download!
See first post for details.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
04-23-2004 at 06:52 PM
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Nillo
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Anyone there?
I'd like some feedback on the rooms I added in version 3.

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
05-18-2004 at 07:10 AM
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agaricus5
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (+1)  
Nillo,

I'm finding myself really short on time at the present because of lots of GCSEs, which as you may know, do take up lots of time.

I can help to test the changes, but currently, I can't be very efficient about it and so really can't do much because I don't really know exactly which rooms are not the same. If you could post a list of the rooms you want looked at, then I will be able to test just those, and avoid having to search every room to check for changes.

However, I did notice...

Click here to view the secret text


[Edited by agaricus5 on 05-20-2004 at 07:48 AM GMT]

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05-20-2004 at 08:44 AM
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gds
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Nillo, I played version 3 of the hold when you released it. Unfortunately, the forum disappearance prevented me from posting my feedback. My memory of the hold is now a bit hazy. I'll try to remember what I thought:

- Level 1 1S2E: I think I was the one who pointed out the unintended solution. Not being able to play this room the way I usually did, I remember thinking it needed a savepoint after the mimic. It's not essential, it's just that it is very easy to make a move that will prevent the mimic from reaching the orb. You then have to redo the first part of the room.

- Catacomb 1E: the removal of the crumbly wall completely changes the solution. I don't think it's terribly harder. No problem there.

- Lava 3N: I can't remember how it was before. The new room is fun although it could be frustrating for someone not familiar with snake behaviour.

- Lava secret room: do you really want it to warp to the sanctum? For me the sanctum was a reward for fully completing level 1. I think just an interesting message or a puzzle would be enough there.

- New secret room in palace: Much better than the previous secret message. A fun room.

- I think I was a bit disappointed by the new palace entrance. However I can't remember why and I can't remember what it was before, now.

- I can't remember what was in 1S3E before either. Nice little effect, now.

- Secret level: The changes to the southern portion of this level are fine. The new 2N is a very good puzzle. I enjoyed it very much. As for 1N2W, I disagree with agaricus. It's not a bad room. It can, however, only be solved from the east.

if there are changes I have missed you'll have to remind me about them. As I said it's been a while.
05-20-2004 at 02:39 PM
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agaricus5
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gds wrote:
- I think I was a bit disappointed by the new palace entrance. However I can't remember why and I can't remember what it was before, now.

The original was a long, single serpent in the space occupied by the smaller ones and the brain.

The new version makes the serpents harder to dodge to begin with, but killing them all is made easier as they are short and more easily dodgeable.

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05-20-2004 at 05:21 PM
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Nillo
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
I don't know what GCSEs are, but anyways:
I've got one for and one against removing the tar-timer now.
I don't feel like just throwing a room away when some people might be enjoying it... what should I do?

I'll add the save point and replace the secret warp with a good puzzle for the next version, anything else I've missed?
agaricus5 wrote:
The new version makes the serpents harder to dodge to begin with, but killing them all is made easier as they are short and more easily dodgeable.
Don't tell me you managed to solve another room that was meant to be impossible... ;)

And thanks very much for all your feedback. I should have a new version ready soon, if nothing suddenly gets in the way.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
05-20-2004 at 09:16 PM
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agaricus5
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Nillo wrote:
I don't know what GCSEs are, but anyways:
GCSE stands for "General Certificate of Secondary Education". It's basically an exam taken at the end of Secondary School in England (Year 11) that eventually gives you a qualification in the subjects that you take, which are basically qualifications to get a job. I don't know what the equivalent is in your country, but the international version is the O-Level, which was also the same exam that was taken in England in the past before it was changed to the GCSE.

I've got one for and one against removing the tar-timer now.
I don't feel like just throwing a room away when some people might be enjoying it... what should I do?

Don't "throw" the room away. I'd say include it as a secret or unrequired room in the hold.

However, my advice to you is not to listen to just one person's opinion on the topic. Try reading the threads about other people's holds on this board (Pre-release versions) and see what problems they encountered and what other people thought of the solutions. I think for tar under walls, Claythro Tower would be a good thread to reference.

agaricus5 wrote:
The new version makes the serpents harder to dodge to begin with, but killing them all is made easier as they are short and more easily dodgeable.
Don't tell me you managed to solve another room that was meant to be impossible... ;)

Err... No.

What I meant was that at first, if you don't know what to do, the serpents can be tricky to dodge, but since they are small, it's quite easy, even if you do mess up, to escape and leave the room.

And thanks very much for all your feedback. I should have a new version ready soon, if nothing suddenly gets in the way.

But you didn't answer the question I asked.

Which rooms did you change?

I can't test efficiently without knowing this.

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05-20-2004 at 10:03 PM
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Nillo
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agaricus5 wrote:
Which rooms did you change?

I can't test efficiently without knowing this.
All changes are listed in the first post.
What I meant was that at first, if you don't know what to do, the serpents can be tricky to dodge, but since they are small, it's quite easy, even if you do mess up, to escape and leave the room.
Yeah, it's quite easy to escape and leave the room. You just have to press numpad 6 several times.
I meant that the room was'nt meant to be solvable without entering the room from the north.

[Edited by Nillo on 05-20-2004 at 09:21 PM GMT]

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“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”
05-20-2004 at 10:14 PM
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Martian 47
Level: Goblin
Rank Points: 24
Registered: 07-11-2004
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icon Re: Dungeon1 (0)  
thumbs up for catacombs 1 south 3 east! :thumbsup
i like this hold a lot!

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:P Born to be wild!
11-04-2004 at 09:02 PM
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