bibelot
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File: Rickys Dungeon.hold (15.6 KB)
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I decided that I had spent too much time doing nothing, so I added a modest fourth level to my dungeon. If you haven't played it before, be warned that while there are a few easy rooms, this hold has generally been taken to be fairly challenging. As usual, I'm sometimes prone to missing trivial solutions, so let me know if you find any.

[Edited by bibelot on 03-15-2004 at 11:42 PM GMT: updated file]

Atch
Level: Delver
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This is my first foray into Ricky’s Dungeon and I am finding it top notch stuff, a lot of counting and timing required, however I am now stuck on this final room of Level 1: 1N, 2E.

Things appear to have changed a bit since the first release last July and the only mention of this location I could find was the following:

Scott wrote (07-15-2003):
1N2E needs a few more reallys I think. I still can't work it out.

Referring to the scroll: I’m still undecided on whether this room is fair or not…: any decision yet Ricky?

As I see it there is only one route to take and we need 21 monsters for the 21st to kill the snake. We are given 10 roaches and I am able to generate 6 tar babies, if the timing is right, leaving me 5 monsters short. Am I seeing things right? Hint(s) please.

Scott
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I never worked out how to do that room. The hint scroll didn't help me any at all. I had to give up.

bibelot
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The original scroll in this room said something to the extent of, "This room is really, really hard. You won't be able to solve it without a hint. But you're going to try anyway aren't you?"

Atch, your analysis of the room so far is correct. You've probably also noticed that the width of the tar mass is exactly twenty-one. Have you solved the hint in 2S1W? This is the room where you need to use it.

Scott
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Woohoo bibelot thanks for the hint I got it finally.

TripleM
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This is also my first time through this hold, and its my favourite out of all of them so far.. I've just done a few of the level 2 rooms. Level 1 was great, and as for that fair/unfair room.. well, although it says somewhere around here about designing holds that you shouldn't use a trick like that in a room, it just looks so nice when you solve it! If you leave it there though, I think what you should do (idea taken from Beethro's Dance of Death) is:

zzyzx
Level: Delver
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This hold is impressive. I don't know whether to continue on or save time and just bang my head repeatedly into the keyboard. Tough stuff!

Atch
Level: Delver
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Registered: 08-29-2003
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TripleM wrote:
Level 1 was great, and as for that fair/unfair room (1N, 2E)… well, although it says somewhere around here about designing holds that you shouldn't use a trick like that in a room, it just looks so nice when you solve it.

Yes, I totally agree with TripleM on Level 1: 1N, 2E, that is an amazing trick that would have been a shame to miss. Besides I don’t see that using it was out of keeping with the spirit of good hold design:

DiMono wrote:
7) Avoid exploiting quirks. Don't make rooms that depend on some game anomaly you discovered by accident. If you find one and just can't resist, include a helpful scroll.

There is a helpful scroll and anyway this isn’t something you could discover by accident is it – surely Ricky has an in-depth knowledge of the programming of roach movements? While this is something that could possibly alter in a new release (1.7?) the trouble for me was that I had become so absorbed with other rooms on Level 1 that I had completely forgotten about the hint scroll in 2S, 1W so a reminder in the room itself would have been appreciated.

Well, it is on to Level 2 now and yet more revelations – did you know that that is what happens when a mimic dies on a trapdoor? Great stuff!

I have a problem with Level 2: 2S, 1W – has anyone managed to clear this room?

The eight mimics each have an orb to strike and the four who don’t have a roach in the way can strike their orbs independently. It would help if these latter four orbs did nothing but instead they open the gate in the NE making the roach there inaccessible. Is this supposed to happen?





[Edited by Atch on 03-08-2004 at 09:50 PM GMT]

bibelot
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Atch wrote:
I have a problem with Level 2: 2S, 1W – has anyone managed to clear this room?

I just did it, so it is indeed possible. The trick, of course, is to avoid trapping the roach before you can get to it...

Nillo
Level: Smitemaster

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bibelot wrote:
The trick, of course, is to

Secret tags, secret tags!

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

Atch
Level: Delver
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Nillo wrote:
Secret tags, secret tags!

Oh! I thought (hoped) that you were giving a further hint there Nillo, until I twigged.

It is obvious that I have to get to the roach before it moves, but how? Do you have any hints?

bibelot
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Atch wrote:
It is obvious that I have to get to the roach before it moves, but how? Do you have any hints?

That's why I didn't put my statement in secret tags, because it wasn't really a secret. Here's a small hint:

Atch
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Re: Level 2: 2S, 1W

Yes, thanks bibelot, obvious really, I must have been in dunce mode yesterday. However the execution was far from straightforward with the mimics, just like the roaches in Level 1: 1N, 2E, on release from their pens, apparently being imprinted at ‘birth’ or when positioned, which made finding the solution a matter of trial and error, for me at least. Had I been solving the room cold I may well have rejected this as the correct path so it was perhaps a case of exploiting a quirk too far.

Anyway, I am on my way again and have gone next door to 2S, 2W. I’m determined to do this one without help so, after an initial look at the set-up, I could be some time!

RoboBob3000
Level: Smitemaster

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I just finished the so-called "unfair" room in the first level. Very glamourous indeed!



____________________________
http://beepsandbloops.wordpress.com/

bibelot
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Level 2, 2S 2W is pretty hard, so good luck. Just to spoil things, 2S 3W is just a harder version of 2S 2W, but it isn't required because I've only had the patience to do it once. There's also no reward as of yet for solving it, besides your own satisfaction.

As for the room on the first level,


I'm glad people seem to be enjoying this hold so far. Level 3 I think is rather fun. Level 4 is much more conventional, but you may need a sheet of graph paper...

TripleM
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One thing I just remembered:

Level one once north has what seems to be a trivial solution. It looks reasonably obvious what the correct way is (getting the small snake to block the roach at exactly the wrong time), but you don't need to, as the snake on the right can die at the bottom left of its region.

bibelot
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TripleM wrote:
One thing I just remembered:

Level one once north has what seems to be a trivial solution. It looks reasonably obvious what the correct way is (getting the small snake to block the roach at exactly the wrong time), but you don't need to, as the snake on the right can die at the bottom left of its region.

Oops, thanks. That was rather silly, but luckily easy to fix; just get rid of the wall to the right of the snake's tail.

TripleM
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bibelot wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×
And I don't really think the orbs need labels; despite what your keyboard suggests, 0<1.

Anyway, I'm now just about to finish level 3.. still loving this hold. I'm up to the room just off from where the exit is, I'm right in thinking that:
Thats going to take a fair bit of trial and error..

bibelot
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TripleM wrote:

Click here to view the secret text

×Yep, but in the hint, the first digit is divisible by 1, the first and second together by 2, .. and all of them together divisible by 10, not 0. So either it could represent 10 and be at the top, or 0 and be at the bottom. Or was it the other way round, you know what I mean.

Thats going to take a fair bit of trial and error..

Well, I hope that once you solve it you'll realize that there's a very logical solution, but there's a chance you might be able to solve it in some random way. Anyway, the intended solution, once found, is clearly intended.

Good job for making it so far. I don't think level four will be as hard, mostly because it's a trapdoor level, there are only so many things you can do with them, and most of those have already been done, but we'll see...

TripleM
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Ah, up to level 4 now. That room in level 3 wasn't as bad as I thought it would be - get the snake in the right place at the right time and the rest works out fine.
Oh and the exit room in that level was great.. had me puzzling for way longer than I thought I would be..

A couple more points about the previous levels:
Level 2, 2S, 3W:


Level 3, 2W and 2W 1S

bibelot
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About level 2, 2S3W: Well, maybe it's not as hard as I thought it was; it's certainly harder than 2S2W, but by the time you get to it, I guess you've had the practice. I could never keep track of all the mimics.

About level 3, 2W and 1S2W: Oops. But this is easily fixed; just move the three potions on the right side down one square. When I made the room, the potions were originally even higher, and I noticed this bug then, but I guess I didn't check to see that it had gone away.

TripleM
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OK, maybe I do have a slightly different solution then - I didn't need to keep track of any mimics.
What I did was:

bibelot
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Ah, okay. Put trapdoors underneath all the roaches in both those rooms then; it'll be a bit harder.

TripleM
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File: blah.JPG (79.8 KB)
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Ah, stuck again. Level 4, 2N1E. I don't want any solution, but I've gotten through the bottom half of the tar and hit the checkpoint. But after numerous attempts at the rest, I can't seem to solve it, and I'm scared that its solvable from here but if I restart I won't remember how to get the bottom half done. Any chance someone can work out whether I can solve it from here? (see attachment.)

[Edited by TripleM on 03-15-2004 at 11:21 PM GMT]

bibelot
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As long as you don't hit the checkpoint again, you should still be able to restore from it even if you restart the room. I also noticed that the arrow at the bottom of the right section was pointing the wrong way; it should be pointing NE. Now I think is a good time to update the file with all of these corrections, so I'll go do that now.

Atch
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 81
Registered: 08-29-2003
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I thought that you deserved an update on my progress through this really excellent hold Ricky. For anyone who has not tried it yet it is a must for all those who like their puzzles to look impossible at first sight.

I have now reached Level 4 where first impressions are not too favourable – I would not normally go for trapdoor/orb puzzles but we’ll see. Before I continue should I download the latest version or is 2N,1E still playable with the force arrow pointing NW?

Level 2

When I last posted here I was about to go to the pair of rooms 2S, 2W and 2S, 3W. I thought that TripleM’s solution for these was inspired but not as elegant as that I took to be the intended method Once you knew what each orb did the puzzle was straightforward, it was keeping track of the mimics that was difficult, that and avoiding the dreaded Splut! and Boing!. I suppose that it would be too much to ask for mimic ID to be added as a feature request? I found these rooms immensely satisfying to complete so, if I had a say, I would make 2S, 3W required.

Despite the above my favourite room of the level was 2W, surely not the original 2W that you were unhappy with? It took literally hours to get this room right and was again so satisfying to complete – it is a masterpiece.

Level 3

A close call but this just beats Level 2 as my favourite level so far. However I wouldn’t have said so earlier for I couldn’t get those damned snakes, especially in 1S and 1N, 2W, to cooperate at all. I was about to post to complain that the puzzles were too tight, and say that an additional three segments on the snakes would make them much more enjoyable, when it just clicked and I was suddenly a snake expert!

The exit trapdoor puzzle is very fine but my favourite room in the level is 1N, 1E – superb. Incidentally, the exit stairs led back to the warp room (Portal) and not Level 4 – intended?

Overall

I have learnt so much from this hold: mimic precedence, mimics on trapdoors and control of snakes, etc. I don’t know how you do it Ricky but only hope that you can keep it up!