b0rsuk
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To put it simple...

1. Brute moves like a roach.
2. If a monster can move freely, it can NEVER stop Brute from moving by blocking his way.
3. When a monster gets in the way of Brute, it is pushed aside anyway ! Brute exchanges squares with a monster.
4. A Brute can never displace another brute.
5. Red Hawk - it's already perfectly fine. No need for further complications. Plenty of stuff can be designed with such monster, it's easy to understand and opens new depth for puzzles.

Comments:
2) Monsters immune to displacement are: other Brutes, Snakes, Tar Mother, and various cases of monsters stuck on force arrows. Of course Brute can't exchange position with a Wraithwing floating over pit.If Brute is standing on closed door, it CAN'T exchange position (reasons are obvious). Same if Brute is stuck in force arow, etc.
3) Actually I think it's better when Brute exchanges position instead of pushing aside. This way you always know where is the weakling going to be tossed.
4) - let's not be silly.
5) - nothing personal.

[Edited by b0rsuk on 02-15-2004 at 06:56 PM GMT]

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The_Red_Hawk
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I like this anyways. No need for the personal comment.



Can it displace tar?

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agaricus5
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b0rsuk wrote:
5. Red Hawk - it's already perfectly fine. No need for further complications. Plenty of stuff can be designed with such monster, it's easy to understand and opens new depth for puzzles.

I really shouldn't do this.

I really shouldn't, especially because someone said not to (I forgot who).

But...

Look at the text in bold. Doesn't that look a bit arrogant to you? If the monster is so "perfect", then no-one will need to make a comment negatively about it, and you will know, because no-one will make one. However, I don't think it's very necessary or polite to actually say it and tell us what to think, rather than let us form our own opinions on the subject.

Basically, if you post it to this forum, let your own creation be open to comment, scrutiny and suggestion. If you don't want this, then just send it to Erik directly.

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masonjason
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I don't think it's different enough from a normal roach. If it could swap places with your sword as well - then .
(Disclaimer: don't worry, that was a joke.)

[Edited by masonjason on 02-15-2004 at 11:07 PM GMT]

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Aris Katsaris
Level: Delver
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Right now this monster has no actual potential as a monster by itself, right? It only has more potential than your normal roach when placed alongside other monsters.

Problem is that even in *such* a situation, it still has no potential if the other monsters are roach-like moving -- roaches, tar babies, spiders, moving eyeballs and the like.

So, we ended up with a monster which has some minor potential if it's at the same time accompanied with either wraithwings or goblins...

... sorry, I just don't think this is good enough.

I think this is a monster-idea that definitely *does* need something extra to be added to it, because the bit about switching places with other monsters just doesn't feel adequate enough...

Perhaps if it was "brutish" enough to ignore arrows? But such a thing would probably be significant enough that in such a case we wouldn't need the "displaces monsters" bit.

masonjason
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You're forgetting, Aris, that there will be more non-roach-like monsters in future versions. You do have a point about its limited use, though. It probably does need another capability.

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The_Red_Hawk
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What about brains? And sleeping eyes?

If eyes could be displaced in their sleeping state, that would be pretty good.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

masonjason
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Yes! In fact, there could be puzzles involving using brutes to swap brains into accessible areas. Still quite limited, though.

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b0rsuk
Level: Smiter

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To be honest, I forgot about brains and sleeping eyes. Brute should be able to displace them, more fun and unique this way.

By the way Brute *does* matter when it comes to replacing roach queens. Even if they move just like ordinary roaches, it makes difference (spawn count etc).



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The_Red_Hawk
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In the movement order, does a brute go before other monsters? Because if not, the other monsters will probably slip out of the way before the brute displaces it.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Nillo
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I like the idea, especially combined with the ability to traverse force arrows, like Aris said.

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Mattcrampy
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All right, how about this - instead of it being roach movement, it will always consider two other squares when moving, whether orthogonal or diagonal.

(What this ends up meaning is that it looks kinda like it's brained, because it'll step around your sword, but it will get stuck just like normal. Sorta like it's brained but only when it's close.)

Matt

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The_Red_Hawk
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How about a monster that can push Beethro's sword aside?

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Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

zex20913
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No! Uh-uh. The only living thing that controls the sword, is Beethro, not monsters. Granted, I was the one who suggested sword arrows, but those are not alive, and can not kill Beethro.

No monsters push the sword.

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mrimer
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zex20913 wrote:
No monsters push the sword.

Sometimes we don't understand how a certain feature request would be useful, but in my opinion dogmatic putdowns of new ideas only tend to squelch creativity. I do recommend stating specific reasons why a new feature would or would not enhance game play or the DROD experience in general.

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zex20913
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*le sigh* alrighty then, I will attempt to delve into my gut instinct, seeing as "I really don't like this idea" doesn't work.

1. It brings up the question of how the monster would be killed, if it can push the sword.

2. Maybe I'm just a control freak, but if I was playing, and some monster just up and moved my sword, I would be rather pissed.

3. Insofar as we know, Beethro is mighty strong to be able to hold such a sword at such a distance for such a time. It would take an act of incredible might to swing Beethro around as well (physically difficult)

4. I see no real potential for anything like this, except perhaps to aggravate the player, or throw them into a chase scene.

I think mainly it's the control issue. Possession is nine tenths of the law, Beethro holds his sword, so Beethro should choose what the sword does.

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SKWERLL
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Well what if the brute could crush crumbly walls just like Beethro? And what if it looked like a red goblin>-> carrying a Pepsi ?

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