Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

Working through, er, v. 10. Finally defeated that arrow maze. Checkpoints are...I guess they're your choice, but it seems to me that there are plenty of places you could put them that wouldn't give away anything. Each corner of the arrow maze, for instance, or each arrow; or, on the one I'm facing now (TG, 1N1E), at each intersection.

That's my opinion, anyway. Still playing.

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

Thanks again for the replies.

TG 1N2E - Hmm, interesting idea, I'll try it out.

TG Entarnace - I know the sparring looks strange, I hope to replace them with 'citizens with swords' custom characters. And as for the roach dodging, you're right, I forgot it's different if you don't have a sword. I'll fix that.

IM - I added 1E as a sort of tutorial room, I hope ot helped somewhat to better understand 2E. Also there was a special bonus challenge here like at the Capital 'I's of Death puzle. It's to see if you can exit without using the tunnel on the right. (I'm not sure if this is possible either)

RoT 6E - Thanks for checking on the scroll, and I'll fix the trapdoor problem, thanks for noticing. Oh and I asked earlier who came up with the name so I can give credit, and ask if I can use it. Was it you TFMurphy?


RoT 2E - Yup that's right, that extra out of place hot tile is there to prevent an easier solutin.

A note on checkpoints. It seems everyone thinks more of them would make it better, so I'll do my best to place more of them. Just say where you think some more checkpoints would be nice, and I'll most likely add some there. The places currently mentioned will get the checkpoints.

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

Finally got through the Theseus maze (I found the second much easier than the first, for some reason). Also the new rolling block maze, the 1-2-3-4-5 maze... Infested Mines, however, hurts my head.

Two quick notes on the 1-2-3-4-5: first, the way the script is currently set up, you have to land on the final square at the end of a move and then wait a turn. That's counterintuitive; I thought I'd done something wrong. It should be possible to move the "check for entity at..." bits of the script so that they check at the end of a move, not at the start of the next. Second, a minor point: you may want to stop activating the lights after the player hits the end of the maze.

(I really love the way you've executed things here, by the way.)

Tahnan
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2460
Registered: 11-14-2005
IP: Logged

...say, incidentally, when I try to copy this hold, DROD crashes. Anyone have any idea why? Should I bug-report it? Is it just me? (I need to copy it, BTW, so that I can export texts for proofreading.)

Hikari
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 438
Registered: 01-28-2006
IP: Logged

After restoring back and peeking at where that other staircase goes... I've got to ask, RuAdam, that in the next version of the hold, if I'm not supposed to be getting into certain places at certain points in the hold, *please* have at least the door scripting in place. From TG 2E, I can easily get to either Guards' Quarters *or* Research Labs, and I'm not sure which (if either) is the proper direction to be going.

So, starting back up from where I left off, and hoping to have an answer soon...

RoT 2E: The second half was less infuriating, and more puzzling. Great implementation of the puzzle. Off to Entrance to see where that goes...

Eternal Stairway Hmm. I see a scroll over there. I hope that doesn't mean I'm on the wrong side... but I probably am, knowing my luck here. I'm not going to do this puzzle backwards... Going back to see what other options I may have on TG...

OK, I think I missed something major. The Warp Room seems to be saying I should be in Infested Mines... which means... Hmm. I think I know where I messed up... I hope this doesn't mean I need to re-solve TG again...

Aha. By entering TG 1S *at all*, it makes it possible for me to pass the blue door in TG 2E and get into the stairways to the wrong areas. This is a problem, maybe? I'm not totally sure how to fix it, though. That depends on things like storyline. Also on getting those doors set properly.

Anyways! I'll play through Road of Trials again when the time comes. Off to...

Infested Mines: Again, grammar/spelling check time...

When beginning an ore mining operation, one must follow the following steps:
1- Analyze the integrity of the rocks and soil, to estimate the number of support structures necessary to avoid tunnel collapse.
2 - Request the proper amount of mining equipment and sufficiently trained miners for the current enviornmental conditions.
3 - Enlist the aid of armed forces proportional to the importance of undisrupted operation of the mine.
4 - During the tunneling process, make sure to install adequate protection against the dangerous oremite. Construct gates so that certain areas can be secluded from the rest of the mine, should an oremite intrusion occur. Also, make sure to remove all explosives from contaminated areas, as they may become unstable and explode, thus risking exposure of other areas to infestation.
---214th Mining Instructor

-Great, an abandoned and oremite infested mine. I'd better sheath my sword. Well, as long as I don't run into any monsters, I think I'll be fine...

Entrance: Wow that's a lot of oremites.

1E: Oh, dear. Multi-state mazes and such...

2E: Agh. Evil, evil room. Not sure I like these puzzles... And I got started way too late to put enough thought into this to work it out. I'll have to poke at it tomorrow.


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RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

Okay, just to clarify things. The order of levels in the warp room is correct, here's how you should go at TG.

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

Just to note: TG works fine when all the scripting runs. However, I don't think all the scripting was in place in V05, so restoring in the middle of a half-completed level without revisiting all the rooms is sure to break things. Once I noticed some big scripting changes had occurred, I just started the hold again from scratch to be sure things were happening correctly.

RuAdam wrote:
IM - I added 1E as a sort of tutorial room, I hope ot helped somewhat to better understand 2E. Also there was a special bonus challenge here like at the Capital 'I's of Death puzle. It's to see if you can exit without using the tunnel on the right. (I'm not sure if this is possible either)

The tutorial rooms did help, but it took a while for what I was looking at to sink in and become recognisable as a system. Not sure if the scrolls hindered that - I found it difficult to match "gate system" and attached gates to easily recognisable concepts, and it was only once I'd played with them a bit that everything finally became clear.

I wasn't aware of the challenge... but I used the western exit rather than the tunnel at the eastern exit, so it looks like it's possible.

RuAdam wrote:
RoT 6E - Thanks for checking on the scroll, and I'll fix the trapdoor problem, thanks for noticing. Oh and I asked earlier who came up with the name so I can give credit, and ask if I can use it. Was it you TFMurphy?

Yeah, I used it. The room came up in chat, and the discussion was what made me try the hold in the first place, so I went away for an hour or two and completed the room, and then came back to chat about it. When Chaco asked exactly which room I was referring to (there were several mazes he was going through at the time), I just used the name on the spot to easily identify it.

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

About IM. I have an easier puzzle witch uses the same system, whould that help, or one puzzle of this type is enough? Also it's good to know both exits are possible at 2E, I'll probably make a secret room witch you can only reach if you do both.

I'll probably put up the new version tomorrow with the mentioned checkpoint, grammar, scripting and other fixes.

TFMurphy
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 3118
Registered: 06-11-2007
IP: Logged

File: UtM Infested Mines 2E Victory.demo (1.3 KB)
Downloaded 45 times.
License: Public Domain

I'm not sure if it would help. I mean, it's quite possible it would - but I'd be approaching this from a perspective of having already solved the main puzzle now. I know I was kinda dreading more puzzles *after* solving 2E, but that's after, not before. You may want to wait until a few others have completed it and offered their thoughts.

Also, looking over my demo again (to make sure I didn't just accidentally forget to look at the east exit as an easier solution), the way I solved it ended up with both exits being available to me at the same point - I couldn't get to either immediately after opening the third door until I'd gone through the state a bit more, and when I finally got to a position where I could go for one, I could essentially go for either. (And then reverse back and reach the other one if I really needed to, since both sets of gates were open to the right setting)

Oh, one thing I remember about the IM tutorials. What confused me a bit was the extra plates you had around that were close to existing systems. I know you have them there to force people to go through the system at least once as a tutorial, but I sometimes found it difficult to realise what was supposed to happen and what plates were actually part of a system. The bendy gate was the worst of these: what was essentially a one-time-configurable one-way arrow was complicated by the plates right before and right after the system. Don't know if a different layout would help here... maybe the systems could be built to be entered more just to play with them, rather than dictating how the player goes through them? I don't know.

EDIT: Extra note. I've now played the map you drew the inspiration from, and there's a significant difference: the Force Arrow gate in the upper center toggles the two adjacent gates when heading south, but opens both when heading north. This does not match the original level. Changing that means my solution doesn't work, and it's indeed a lot harder to get to the western exit (haven't managed it yet - I'll give it a few tries and then maybe see if I can state traverse this one too).

Also, the Pressure Plate at (24,4) doesn't open the gates that it should.

EDIT 2: I've completed it with both exits available to me even with the change. And then used the same route in N to complete the level, collecting all gold, and leaving via the western exit (with both exits accessible). Hope that answers your question.

---

[Last edited by TFMurphy at 10-03-2008 03:54 PM]

Hikari
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 438
Registered: 01-28-2006
IP: Logged

Argh. IM 2E's solution eludes me. That is why no batch of room responses and such tonight.

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RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

Version 11 up.

TUP 1N3E, TG 1E, TG 3E, TG 4E, TG 1N1E - Added checkpoints.

TG 1N1E - Door opens when you arrive, you don't have to wait, lights turn off after you finish.

TG 1N2E - The dissappearing trick worked, rotation is now faster. They only spend a turn to face the right direction, if they don't have anything better to do.

IM 2E - Fixed pressure plates.

RoT 6E - Fixed trapdoor, rephrased scroll.

Grammar fixes included.

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

New version 14 up.

It's been a while. I was hoping to get some more feedback regarding IM, but oh well.

IM 1E, 2E has been modifyed a bit. I hope it's somewhat more understandable.

Level entrance descriptions changed. Except TUP and IM.
TUP Entrance - Added scrolls for credit.
TG 2E - Story added. Can be tested without recompleating the puzzles.
TG Entrance - I left the sparring cityzens the way they are, I think it looks funny. (and getting custom character grafic is too complicated just for this I think)

RL - Story added. Feel free to try to break the scripting.

Hold description and ending added.

Some secret rooms somewhere added.

Hold can be mastered, but there is no reward for mastering yet. I'll add that after everything else is done.

DanielFishman
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 159
Registered: 06-03-2007
IP: Logged

There is a bug with the scripting in Training Grounds: 1E. If you enter the room and drink the invisibility potions to start the puzzle, then leave without solving the puzzle, the Aumtlich are no longer there when you re-enter the room.

DanielFishman
Level: Master Delver

Rank Points: 159
Registered: 06-03-2007
IP: Logged

There's also two instances of misspelling 'quiet' as 'quite' in the 'we have found the intruder' cutscene in 2E.
Also, the 'cinematic testing' scripting doesn't work quite as advertised: you can still use it even once you've solved some puzzles, just you can only watch cutscenes you haven't already seen through the 'official' means.

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

TG 1E - Thanks for noticing. It seems NPCs die when they turn into monsters. (I'v got imperative end when killed, and they turn into monsters when you step on the first potion) I'll figure out something to get around this.

TG 2E - I also noticed that it doesen't work as advertised, but oh well, you can still test with it, and it'll be removed anyway. The only thing it does that it makes it as if you have compleated more rooms in the level. (there is a variable that keeps track of it, and that's used to trigger the cutsceens)

RuAdam
Level: Master Delver
Rank Points: 157
Registered: 08-24-2004
IP: Logged

I'v been neglecting working on this hold for various reasons, like university starting, playing DROD RPG and stuff like that, but I'v decided that it's about time to wrap things up.

I'd like to thank again everyone helping out in beta testing. I would have given up working on this hold long ago without your support.