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File: DROD Tutorials.hold (9.6 KB)
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This starts of very easy, and goes through controls,game elements, all monsters, advanced technique, and an example dungeon in the end.
People who read this are probably not beginners, but you can use it to introduce friends to DROD.

Oneiromancer
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This really should have been posted in the Architecture forum first. How do any of us know that it is in the final shape that this forum is intended for? If there are any problems it is impossible for you to replace your hold here in this forum...one of the forum administrators will have to do it, and the whole point of the Holds forum is that they shouldn't have to do that.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a forum administrator deleted this post or moved it to the Architecture forum until people have had a chance to test it out.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Watcher
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Well, I just played through this hold, so I can confirm that it is indeed possible, and it does seem to be a complete work. But yes, the next time you should post your hold in Architecture first.

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Today the refrigerator, tomorrow the world!

Schik
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If you're certain that the hold is complete and mostly bug-free, I don't see a problem with posting it here without first posting it to Architecture. I could certainly create a hold, hold a private beta test, and then post it directly to Holds without anyone on the forum ever seeing it.

____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

Nillo
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Sorry, I´ll do it next time I make a hold. But I did playtest it a lot.

[Edited by Nillo on 06-12-2004 at 10:00 PM GMT]

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

Oneiromancer
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Schik wrote:
If you're certain that the hold is complete and mostly bug-free, I don't see a problem with posting it here without first posting it to Architecture. I could certainly create a hold, hold a private beta test, and then post it directly to Holds without anyone on the forum ever seeing it.

The only problem is that while playtesting can certainly make sure that the hold is bug-free and solveable...it might not catch trivial/unintended solutions and problems with moving between rooms that the original author might never notice because they are limited by knowing how it is supposed to go. Probably not too much of a problem for a hold that is meant to be a tutorial, but I'd rather not see this become a common occurrence.

If it was easier to replace your hold when a bug was found, I might not mind so much, because of the rating system. Someone who is continually posting incomplete and bug-filled holds will get rated way down and no one will want to play their hold in the future when there are so many more higher rated holds available.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Watcher
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Nillo wrote:
Sorry, I´ll do it next time I make a hold. But I did playtest it a lot.

Eh, it's okay for such a simple hold, and I can confirm that everything is possible. Just don't make it a habit.

And welcome to the forums, Nillo!

____________________________
Today the refrigerator, tomorrow the world!

Nillo
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Thanks!
I´m working on another hold now, but it will take some time.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

DiMono
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Watcher wrote:
forums, Nillo!

Man, how's this thread for a welcome aboard?

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joker5
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Ack! I knew it! I knew it! I KNEW someone would have the same idea as me! Ah well, it happens.

My biggest gripe is the lack of information on and exposure to the different monsters; it seems to me like most of the critters make cameo appearances. You describe monsters briefly and incompletely(sometimes not at all, like the spiders), and then you expose them to the monsters once.

Ok, enough grumbling. This is a good hold. It is good for experienced gamers (but not DRODders), as it lets people figure lots of things out on their own. The beginning is great, final test is good(although a little intimidating), and the pace is quick enough for people to stay interested.

~joker5

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Schik
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Oneiromancer wrote:
The only problem is that while playtesting can certainly make sure that the hold is bug-free and solveable...it might not catch trivial/unintended solutions and problems with moving between rooms that the original author might never notice because they are limited by knowing how it is supposed to go. Probably not too much of a problem for a hold that is meant to be a tutorial, but I'd rather not see this become a common occurrence.

How, other than playtesting, do you propose to find trivial/unintended solutions? Posting it to the architecture board doesn't run it through a magical trivial solution finder.

I think my comments have been taken wrong - I'm not discouraging playtesting, nor playtesting by a variety of people. I'm just saying there are people out there other than those of us active on the forum.

Also, I could ask a couple of forum regulars to privately test my hold, as I don't want the whole world to see it until I'm satisfied it's complete. The architecture forum is *great*, but it's not the only way to get a hold out there - Dugan's Dungeon certainly pre-dates the architecture board.


____________________________
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way it treats its animals.
--Mahatma Gandhi

Mattcrampy
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I'd be surprised if there was an open beta for Rooted Hold, for that matter.

Matt

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Oneiromancer
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Schik wrote:
How, other than playtesting, do you propose to find trivial/unintended solutions? Posting it to the architecture board doesn't run it through a magical trivial solution finder.

Er, yeah, I meant to say playtesting by yourself. Anything you create that will be seen by other people, from a Letter to the Editor of your local newspaper to a DROD Hold, should be seen and critiqued by someone else because people are invariably blind to faults in their own creations. It's just human nature. But yeah, I guess I didn't consider DROD activity outside the forum. It's just too scary of a thought.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

The_Red_Hawk
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Schik wrote:
Also, I could ask a couple of forum regulars to privately test my hold, as I don't want the whole world to see it until I'm satisfied it's complete.

I'll do it!



____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

krammer
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Erm... Red_Hawk, I think Schik was just giving a hypothetical situation - he doesn't actually have a hold he wants tested, he was just saying that it's possible to post a hold here without putting it in Architecture first.

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+++ Divide by Cucumber Error +++ Please Reinstall Universe and Reboot +++

"Oook!"

The_Red_Hawk
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I know that, don't worry.....

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

sims5000
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Nillo, did you copy the drod newbies idea or did you just make it?

[Edited by sims5000 on 01-07-2004 at 07:37 PM GMT]

Oneiromancer
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I am not surprised that a lot of people would independantly come up with the idea for a newbie hold. NoahT made one back several months ago, but it was never finished and uploaded to the Holds forum. I don't know how it compares to any of these other newbie holds, I haven't really played too many of them.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

krammer
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Yeah, but that was just an easy hold. These actually have scrolls and teach you the basics, what to do in various situations and how different elements and monsters work.

Speaking of which, haven't seen Noah round here for a long time... so his dungeon is proabbly permanently stuck at 4 levels.

____________________________
+++ Divide by Cucumber Error +++ Please Reinstall Universe and Reboot +++

"Oook!"

The_Red_Hawk
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I'm planning on making one when I'm done with Deep Hold Part One and I'm waiting for 1.7.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

swann_88
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Registered: 06-29-2003
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I hate you
I never knew R was the hotkey for restore until I tried this tutorial
and now I can't stop hitting it by mistake ugghh!!!

ErikH2000
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swann_88 wrote:
I hate you
I never knew R was the hotkey for restore until I tried this tutorial
and now I can't stop hitting it by mistake ugghh!!!

Redefine the key for restart to something else in settings.

-Erik

____________________________
The Godkiller - Chapter 1 available now on Steam. It's a DROD-like puzzle adventure game.
dev journals | twitch stream | youtube archive (NSFW)

swann_88
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thanks for the tip Erik

sims5000
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you're talking about keyboard controls aaagh i've always wanted to do that!

agaricus5
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sims5000 wrote:
you're talking about keyboard controls aaagh i've always wanted to do that!

OK. I shall now try to be as butler-ish as possible and inform you about your choice of dinner jacket being not as tasteful as it could have been in as polite a way as I can manage.

Be liberal with that off-topic sign, sims5000. I know you wish to look out for off-topics, but from the emboldened text, it appears you have other purposes other than simply informing us about an off-topic. Plus, the fact that you've used one only after 2 or 3 slightly off-topic posts means that I think you're too restrictive of the discussions. Give people more of a chance to discuss things, for as you know, conversation often wanders from the original topic slightly, and only use the off-topic sign if you can plainly see that a thread has changed topic completely and the original topic has been lost - e.g. if a thread about something like a hold turns into a discussion on theology.

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NoahT
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I've been reviving several threads from the dead lately...

Anyway, I have a suggestion. Nillo's tutorial is only one idea for a tutorial, when there are many possible tutorials. I think probably there should be a tutorial in the "Where" menu for 1.7, and my suggestion is there could be a contest of tutorials. Members, after making a tutorial, would have to submit their hold before a certain deadline, presumably at least several months before the release of 1.7. After the deadline, the moderators would look through all the tutorials and decide on the best one, which would be put into 1.7. Sound like a good idea?

Oh, and Nillo, just so you know, I have the same thing to say as joker5 did earlier in this thread. No offense, but I had plans of making my own tutorial.

-Noah

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And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:

NoahT
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Anyone have a preference? Sorry if this is rude, but no one seemed to notice I posted a question.

-Noah

____________________________
And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make.

My stuff:

Oneiromancer
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Obviously no one had an answer for you, or indeed anything at all to say.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Nillo
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If a tutorial should be made for 1.7, it'd probably have to include all the new enemies and stuff too, and we can't do that.

____________________________
“Folks say that if you listen real close at the height of the full moon, when the wind is blowin' off Nantucket Sound from the nor' east and the dogs are howlin' for no earthly reason, you can hear the awful screams of the crew of the 'Ellie May,' a sturdy whaler Captained by John McTavish; for it was on just such a night when the rum was flowin' and, Davey Jones be damned, big John brought his men on deck for the first of several screaming contests.”

Tim
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[The following text is only an opinion. My very sincere apologies if it offended you, or that it sounds a bit harsh, I did not mean to do that.]

I think puzzle games should never need a tutorial level. Since one of the main goals of a puzzle game is to learn, lessons should be delivered inside the main game. Any learning should be only done in the puzzles or in the accompanying rules.

Any tutorial levels outside the main game should be considered as bad level/game design.

Besides, I think newbies would rather like some nice and simple challenging holds. Not tutorials.

-- Tim

[Edited by Tim on 09-07-2004 at 09:57 PM GMT]