vinheim
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All these ideas bombarded me whilst I was dreaming of being attacked by marshmallows:
1. Colored crumbly walls, pink ones turn into trapdoors over pit, blue into trapdoors over water, red ones into hot tiles, yellow ones into a pressure plate that is determined by an adjacent pressure plate which it combines with
2. New: Snake type: Orb snake, never grows like the adder, each section of its body must be assigned with an orb or pressure plate. Same weakness as rattleserpent/snake, the tail. Hit the orb or step on the pressure plate assigned to its tail to shorten it until up to its head which it then either dies or turns into an unassigned orb, your choice.
3. New: Tar type: Ooze-never has babies. Instead, it has ooze bombs that act like normal bombs, except smaller range and its explosions won't kill you. (debate?) Efficiency rooms might include being efficient enough to cut up bombs, then strike them to clear ooze faster. It can be cut anywhere.
4. The monster machine: can spawn 1x1 tile monsters when its respective pressure plate is stepped on, makes it a nightmare when there are many of its pressure plates everywhere and goblins moving around keep stepping on them. Even more of a nightmare when the pressure plates are on-and-off types
5. Grouping NPCs, you can group NPCs with a line looking icon on the monsters tab. The script of the leader of the group will affect the rest allowing the use of 2x2 scripted enemies like rock giants
6. New: Trampoline/trampoline potion-if you prefer trampoline, its basically a solid object that bumping into it will shoot you in the opposite direction by <?> squares and over pits. Difference between this and tunnels is that monsters can go over the trampoline and get hurled in that direction which may be their last move if over a pit
7. Image water, Image platform, Image stairs: Ever wanted to make swampy water that skippers can still live on, or maybe you want to ride on a cloud instead of a purple platform, maybe you're making a dungeon-like level where instead of climbing stairs, you're climbing a rope
8. New: Hookshot potion-when you drink it, you press any orthogonal direction and you will shoot in that direction until you hit a solid wall, while destroying orbs and stuff, possibly killing enemies on the way, but you'll die if you hit the wall while over the pit
9. New: Monster type: Siren-like the mythical creatures, these will paralyze you if you step in its range of 5 squares with the same effect as the aumtlich. Only exception is that they'll get tired of their paralyzing singing after paralyzing you after <?> turns
10. New terrain type: mountains, everything is slow on it like taking a speed potion, but even you are slowed by it (not your sword), the only things fast in it are wraithwings and some monsters you consider mountain-livers, I see no use in this, but it was in the dream

So please comment on each one

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[Last edited by vinheim at 01-08-2008 11:36 AM]

vinheim
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Nuntar wrote:

1: The purpose of crumbly walls is to be a barrier that can become passable. The function of trapdoors is the opposite. So all this would add would be a passage that you could open and then go down once... just put an evil eye on a trapdoor. The crumbly wall / hot tile does add something new (although my Oven Grille suggestion also allows a crumbly wall square to become a hot tile) but I can't see that it would add much puzzle potential.

Remember that trapdoor dropping contributes to red doors

2: Again, what would this add to the gameplay? What kinds of puzzles could you create with it?

Well, orb puzzles involving getting to an orb to kill this

3: Just use guards trapped in briars.

Ok, how about an ooze mother with no sworded babies

5: Can probably be done with scripting already.

Grouping NPC's? Imagine making a giant moving spiky disc move around. It would be easier to group all npcs so that all move in sync instead of so many scripts

9: No. Just no. I do not want to have to look at the clock every turn when deciding on a strategy.

I actually agree with you on this, though still something to get off my chest

10: This is the only one of your ideas that I wouldn't object to seeing in a future release, but I can't really say it inspires me to want to create puzzles with it. Perhaps after seeing the puzzles you would make with it I would feel differently.

For 4,6,7,8 I think 6 and 7 should be implemented, 6 for a new monster type and 7 for wider control of DRoD

zex20913
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I think that the crumbly wall with a hot tile certainly adds a new timing element that we haven't seen before...even though it could be a tedious one. Destroy walls, move back, turn, destroy more walls, return, turn, etc.

Quite tedious, though new.

I don't really see any new puzzles coming from gate snakes. This is like a #4-type idea. (Adds something new, but nothing that changes gameplay/puzzle elements). (I think it was eytanz who gave that number system--1 is a totally new element, 5 is something like a new graphic for a roach.)

Ooze, sorta nah on this. Revamped crumbly, but only indirectly destructible. Not my cup of tea.

I was sort of "uh..." on that pressure plate idea, but I'm glad you had that puzzle suggestion along with it. I think it would be neat in horde-type situations, but individual ones aren't going to be all too interesting.

Grouping NPCs could also make serpent-types possible. I'm thinking I like it, though I don't have experience with the scripting.

No on the medusa. Give me an evil eye next to a pressure plate that closes the exits.

Of the rest, 10 earns a comment, in that I think that if we have double speed, we need an element that has half-speed. The only thing is, if there's a double speed monster (which is also necessary IMO), it would NEED to be effected by half speed, or else it'd get 4 turns to one for Beethro. Nigh upon impossible to take care of that.

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Kwakstur
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Grouping NPCs would finally bypass the problems with movement order. Currently, a 2x2 NPC could stay together in one direction, but will fall apart when it moves in the other. Better yet, because of the existence of Rock Giants, it seems that we have already passed the problems that large sprites cause in the consistency of the sprite list (list of sprites and locations) with the sprite layer (2D array of the level, each tile assigned a sprite), of which DROD seems to use both.

I love the custom images idea for the other tiles, although we can already do stairs with image floors and teleporting NPCs.

Gate snakes sure are a unique and interesting idea, being movable gates. I'll give you that. But they aren't half as useful as stationary gates.

I have no comments for the rest, other than most of them have in fact been suggested before.

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[Last edited by Kwakstur at 01-06-2008 06:18 PM]

Doom
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zex20913 wrote:
I think that the crumbly wall with a hot tile certainly adds a new timing element that we haven't seen before...even though it could be a tedious one. Destroy walls, move back, turn, destroy more walls, return, turn, etc.

Quite tedious, though new.

Try hot plates + broken orbs

Don't know if people have actually used this trick widely yet, but it's there.

Someone Else
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For #1, it actually does have potential when combined with platforms.

Sillyman
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vinheim wrote:
1. Colored crumbly walls, pink ones turn into trapdoors over pit, blue into trapdoors over water, red ones into hot tiles, yellow ones into a pressure plate that is determined by an adjacent pressure plate which it combines with

Yes. This good. Even the trapdoors under crumbly walls. It can be traversed by seep or broken by a sworded character, then can be traversed by nearly anything or dropped by Beethro, then can be traversed by a platform, wraithwings, or perhaps water skippers. But what happens if there is no adjacent pressure plate?

2. New snake type: gate snake, looks like an overweight serpent, comes in different colors and are only killed when the gate it is associated with closes so you can assign it a closed gate like you can assign orbs to doors
a. gate snakes are not required to kill to clear a room so you can make green gate and blue gate snake
b. gate snakes are are killed when everything else in the room is killed so you can make green and blue gate snakes
c. gate snakes cannot come in blue or green color so all you have left are red, black and yellow ones

No. I really can't think of anything here.

3. New tar type: Ooze, has no mother, cannot be cut anywhere, only destroyed by bombs and hooks and possibly fegundos. Lack of spawning of ooze babies should make them fully equipped with a sword and having guard movement

Same as #2.

4. The monster machine: can spawn 1x1 tile monsters when its respective pressure plate is stepped on, makes it a nightmare when there are many of its pressure plates everywhere and goblins moving around keep stepping on them. Even more of a nightmare when the pressure plates are on-and-off types

Yes! We need a script-triggerable monster spawner! It should be triggerable by orbs and pressure plates, and be configured to spawn a certain monster when building the room. Maybe we could also make it be able to spawn NPCs. Easiest interface I can think of is that you place what you want to spawn on top of the machine when building.

5. Grouping NPCs, you can group NPCs with a line looking icon on the monsters tab. The script of the leader of the group will affect the rest allowing the use of 2x2 scripted enemies like rock giants

Yes! Most definitely! But... the interface you suggested doesn't sound consistant. Maybe grouping should be a script command. "Attach to Entity N/W/S/E" or "Attach to Entity at" The character using this command then cannot move, but instead moves with the attached Entity. The rest of the script can continue running, however.

6. New monster: Medusa, stationary, unkillable (except for stuff that kills wubbas like explosions, falling bridges, adder...), its gaze can kill you, unless you have a clone which it automatically switches to

Naw. Letting you switch clones seems new, but I can't think of anything useful. Maybe leave a pushable statue behind?

7. Image water, Image platform, Image stairs: Ever wanted to make swampy water that skippers can still live on, or maybe you want to ride on a cloud instead of a purple platform, maybe you're making a dungeon-like level where instead of climbing stairs, you're climbing a rope

Necessary for Flawless Consistancy. Include!

8. Anti-monster (blue) and anti-beethro squares (red), blue ones can make puzzles where you have to make sure enemies dont get around them or they will trigger a pressure plate, red ones provide puzzles based on horde control

Been suggested and rejected. Might still get in, but I don't like it.

9. Invincible even or odd potion, kinda like a speed potion because speed ones can let you take a move that would normally kill you, but then take a move out for safety, exceptions are: you're not fast, nothing can kill you on even (for even pots) or odd (for odd pots) turns so scripts that kill a clone wont kill you, etc

Hmm... Naw. Invincibility doesn't really have a use.

10. New terrain type: mountains, everything is slow on it like taking a speed potion, but even you are slowed by it (not your sword), the only things fast in it are wraithwings and some monsters you consider mountain-livers, I see no use in this, but it was in the dream

This seems like it could have a use, maybe. One thing to note is that DRoD would have to interpolate motion, or just show both moves with a delay between like a cutscene, while you were on mountains, so as not to confuse people.

So please comment on each one
You wanted me to, so I did.

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vinheim
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The least favored 2,3,6,8 and 9 have been replaced

To sillyman about idea no.1, if there is no adjacent pressure plate, nothing will be created, thus allowing puzzles of lessening the size of pressure plates (not creating new ones) so that when you release a monster there wont be a chance of the monster stepping on an unwanted pressure plate

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[Last edited by vinheim at 01-08-2008 11:41 AM]

Someone Else
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For 1, I like the idea of crumbly walls over hot tiles. I think this has a fair bit of potential, and would be the most fun.

5 is one of the best I've seen. However, I think it needs two types: solid, and serpentine. Then, you can make custom serpents as well as rock giant like monsters.

I also like 9. I think that it should be 1 turn, but not allow you to move at all (and it can't paralyze you the turn you become un-paralyzed by any siren). And then it doesn't get tired; it basically just causes you to move half as fast. If implemented this way, it would have an interesting effect with speed potions: you would move twice, then monsters would move twice, etc.

Banjooie
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pffff

vinheim: oh man I posted this thread I am so embarassed about once

Someone Else: BUMPING IT FOR GREAT JUSTICe

I love you guys

Someone Else
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Well, huh. Man, I was so tired last night.

vinheim
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Totally saw it coming.