agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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This creature began to appear in dungeons fairly recently, but no-one knows what they really are as no-one has ever been able to capture one alive and examine it alive. Speculations over it vary, but most think it is the ghost of a long-forgotten soldier that wields the sword. The sword itself generally tends to hover four feet off the ground where it savagely slices at any unfortunate victims that it encounters, but has also been known to float over pits and fly up through holes in high ceilings to reach higher levels.

The Animated Sword will, when it senses Beethro, begin to make for him like a Goblin, so it can find its way around 1 square wide obstacles to reach Beethro. However, unlike a Goblin, the Animated Sword will try to manoeuver itself to align itself on a straight line with Beethro like a roach, so it will try to make a beeline attack for Beethro as fast as possible once there are no obstacles between the monster and Beethro.

Animated Swords, however, are weapons, so they cannot be killed in the conventional way as stabbing them does not kill the ghost that holds it. However, since the power of Beethro's arms is much higher than the ghost's, if Beethro hits the sword, he will send it flying away from him.

If Beethro steps towards the sword, the Animated Sword will move in the samedirection to Beethro, for example:

If Beethro faces East and a Sword comes directly at him from the East, and then Beethro steps east towards it and knocks it, the sword will then move east.

If Beethro swings his sword to hit it, the Sword will move off in the same direction as the motion of Beethro's sword, for example:

If Beethro faces North-west and a Sword attacks from the North, and Beethro turns once clockwise so he faces north, hitting the Sword, the sword will then move east as Beethro's Sword has moved one square east form its start position during its rotation.

Once hit, the sword will lose control and continue moving in the direction of motion for 5 moves, killing all monsters vulnerable to the sword that it touches. After this, it regains control over itself and resumes its attack. However, if the sword, during its motion away from Beethro, hits a barrier like a wall or orb (It cannot crack crumbly walls or activate orbs)m an invulnerable monster like a serpent, or a force arrow facing the opposite direction to its motion, the force stopping it shatters the sword, and so kills the monster.

Animated Swords, like other swords, are not very wide, so can hover over things like potions without damaging them and can also hover over walls, crumbly walls (but cannot break them), orbs (but not activate them), tar (but not destroy it) and serpent segments like Beethro's sword can. They can also float over pits and is able to cross them like a wraithwing can.

I was intending that they kill all monsters in their way, so allowing them to get to Beethro through a horde of monsters, but I remember reading about this being a bad thing for some reason because it is helping Beethro as well as attacking him, so I'm not sure if it should be able to kill monsters in its way when going towards Beethro.

Hmm... I think that's it (I'm tired, so the description may be a little vague/unclear). Questions and comments would be appreciated.

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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1. Which direction does the sword point?

2. Does the ghost take up a square?

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

zex20913
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1723
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A few Qs.

1. Is it an immediate 5 squares, or is it one-per-turn?

2. If it is one per turn, can Beethro hit it twice or more? If so, is the five turns counted from each strike, or from the first?

3. Can the sword kill monsters on the way to Beethro?

4. Can the sword go on top of Beethro's sword?

5. What if the sword were in a position to kill another sword?

That's enough for me for now.

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 09-02-2003
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Can the sword float over other monsters?

And, since it's a ghost, why can't it go through walls?

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Sokko
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 336
Registered: 02-25-2003
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AFAIK, it can go through walls; it can go anywhere Beethro's sword can, but we're not sure whether to make it slash through monsters to get to Beethro. And I don't think there's actually any ghost to speak of; that was just part of the explanation of why the sword exists, not an actual in-game element.

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DiMono
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Rank Points: 1181
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Cool idea, I think it would be interesting. My question though, is what happens if you turn from W to NW to knock the sword out, does it go North or North-East?

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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I think it goes north.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Sorry for the long delay. I forgot about this thread.

zex20913 wrote:
A few Qs.

Fire away!

1. Is it an immediate 5 squares, or is it one-per-turn?

One move per turn

2. If it is one per turn, can Beethro hit it twice or more? If so, is the five turns counted from each strike, or from the first?

Yes he could hit it, and since he will make contact with it and whack it forward, the 5 moves resets to when he hit it. This also will work for swords hit by mimics.

3. Can the sword kill monsters on the way to Beethro?

Yes, it will do this just to get to Beethro. I think I mentioned this in the description, although I'm not sure. In addition, flying swords after being hit will kill everything in their paths.

4. Can the sword go on top of Beethro's sword?

Yes. If it does that, Beethro's only defence is to step forward and hit it or step back. It cannot be held at bay by his sword because it itself is a floating weapon.

5. What if the sword were in a position to kill another sword?

I suppose...

Hmm. Very good question. Perhaps they will not interact with each other, being of the same type of monster, so will not be able to go on top of each other or kill each other. If Beethro hits a sword and it flies towards another, they will pass through each other.

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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Hey, what about *my* questions?

[Edited by The_Red_Hawk on 12-23-2003 at 01:21 AM GMT]

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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Registered: 02-04-2003
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The_Red_Hawk wrote:
Hey, what about *my* questions?

OK...OK...

Please be calm and give me a chance.

I assumed that your questions did not need to be answered as the answers are already in the thread, although implicitly.

I'll answer them explicitly now since you asked.

1. Which direction does the sword point?

It's variable, like many other monsters. The sword will point in the direction it is going, just like other monsters.

2. Does the ghost take up a square?

Already answered by Sokko, the "ghost" is speculation - no-one knows if it is a ghost holding the sword up - it's part of the explanation, but not actually part of the in-game monster.

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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agaricus5 wrote:
OK...OK...

Please be calm and give me a chance.

I am sorry if I sounded offended, angry, or in any way uncalm because I didn't mean to be. When someone types, it's really had to figure out the tone, I know. The tone I was going for was "vaguely annoyed, yet still amused." The sort of time one might give someone a playful slap on the back, so to speak. Sorry if that's a bad analogy.

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Aris Katsaris
Level: Delver
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Registered: 10-10-2003
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Already answered by Sokko, the "ghost" is speculation - no-one knows if it is a ghost holding the sword up - it's part of the explanation, but not actually part of the in-game monster.

*snicker* You know, *that's* the reason I feel that people should really, *really* not bother with the explanations so much when requesting monsters/items. Just tell us the gameplaying aspect! Or atleast tell us the gameplaying aspect *first*, and then explain to us, as a sidenote, all the rest of the interesting backstory you have in mind, the one that's not relevant to the game-playing aspects...

To do differently, makes the whole thing much more complicated to understand IMO. I remember than when reading some monster-suggestions (e.g. the Fireball) and my eyes started watering because there was a ton of really-not-necessary biological explanations before the post even *started* to explain what the requested monster actually did!

Sorry, agaricus... I hope you were not offended by this...

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
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Aris Katsaris wrote:
*snicker* You know, *that's* the reason I feel that people should really, *really* not bother with the explanations so much when requesting monsters/items. Just tell us the gameplaying aspect! Or atleast tell us the gameplaying aspect *first*, and then explain to us, as a sidenote, all the rest of the interesting backstory you have in mind, the one that's not relevant to the game-playing aspects...

To do differently, makes the whole thing much more complicated to understand IMO. I remember than when reading some monster-suggestions (e.g. the Fireball) and my eyes started watering because there was a ton of really-not-necessary biological explanations before the post even *started* to explain what the requested monster actually did!

Sorry, agaricus... I hope you were not offended by this...

Not offended whatsoever.

Unfortunately, this is how I describe things. First I write an introduction explaining what the monster is and providing some background on it, then I go on to outline movement techniques, interactions with other monsters and Beethro, and interactions with floor surfaces/tiles.

It's also how it's done (although to a lesser extent) in the help file and monster descriptions.

The thing is, I don't want to just detail the monster in terms of gameplay, but to breathe some life into it and make it a proper monster with some information that allows people to picture it in their heads and imagine it. If I just described it in terms of the game, then it just becomes another object, described in terms of how it moves and what it does in a room, which, in my opinion, makes it a little boring.

I know that the monsters may not carry the descriptions used when implemented - they may even become something different, but I think that the descriptions help to make the monster/object unique and different, at least on the drawing board, mainly because people can imagine it to be different. Just think about it - if all the monsters were roaches with different colours to differentiate them because no-one could be bothered to invent new monster ideas, then although the monsters would have their own movement traits/characteristics, and would work technically, all the monsters would just be roaches and therefore make the game boring and uninventive.

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eytanz
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agaricus5 wrote:
The thing is, I don't want to just detail the monster in terms of gameplay, but to breathe some life into it and make it a proper monster with some information that allows people to picture it in their heads and imagine it. If I just described it in terms of the game, then it just becomes another object, described in terms of how it moves and what it does in a room, which, in my opinion, makes it a little boring.

But that's what this forum is for - new gameplay suggestions. First, you need to convince everyone (well, everyone on the dev team) that the monster is a valuable addition gameplay-wise. Then, you can optionally show how to maike it interesting.

Back when EyAngband development was active and I got a lot of feature suggestions, there was nothing I hated more than someone who wrote long, detailed explanations about monsters/items/whatever without first laying out, in dry detail, how exactly they were supposed to work. Such suggestions required a lot more work on my part - I, as a developer, had to sift through the description and try to guess what's important, and what's just flavor. And it made me felt bad, becuase I would throw out suggestions such as that without proper consideration, though it was clear that someone put effort into them.

I don't know if Erik and Mike and Schik are the same, but, honestly, I never liked a single one of your suggestions when I first read i, mainly because I could never understand how it's supposed to work. Sometimes, after a long thread of explanations, I changed my mind, but often I don't bother returning to these threads.

Besides, and most importantly, flavor is secondary. Take Red_Hawk's "buffalo" monster, for instance. We all agreed that "buffalo" is a stupid name. But there was some genuine disagreement about the value of the gameplay. If, say, Erik was on the side that thought it's a good monster idea, he could first implement it and then think of a good description. The other way round doesn't work - "I really really want a floating sword in my game, floating swords are cool, I don't care how" leads to crappy games. The way you present your feature requests, it makes it very hard to seperate one from the other.

Of course, I agree completely that at the point that the monster is put into the game, a well-developed description and story for it adds a lot. But not at the initial suggestion level - not if we want to keep DROD as great a game as it is now.

Edit: oh, and I didn't mean that you shouldn't include all those details. Just that you should change the way they are presented. Instead of giving a story about the monster with gameplay details intersparsed, have a story section and a dry summary of the gameplay features, as well. Then you have the best of both worlds.

[Edited by eytanz on 12-23-2003 at 04:16 PM GMT]

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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Usually, a monster sounds better if a small background is given first - I think it adds some character to it (like agaricus). See the description for the 'Neather (unless it's changed).

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Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

agaricus5
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1838
Registered: 02-04-2003
IP: Logged

Everyone has different tastes, I suppose - some people prefer to have a small understanding behind the monster in question, while others prefer the hard gameplay facts first because an introduction may be confusing. It's all to do with how we think and learn, and so I think that no-one's opinions are wrong - everyone's different.

So, in future, I will show the introduction clearly by marking it (because it helps me understand exactly what it is that I'm describing), and then have the gameplay description in a separate block beneath, also clearly marked.

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The_Red_Hawk
Level: Smitemaster
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That sounds pretty good, and it should satisfy everyone.

____________________________
Slashing, whirling, diving, twirling,
Snapping, turning, rising, swirling,
Screeching, flipping, gliding, sliding,
The red hawk's dance of death.

.....the king of the skies.....

Mattcrampy
Level: Smitemaster

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May I interrupt?

I don't often check here, though, so I may be a bit late.

However, part of the reason we ask for gameplay suggestions is that we reserve the right to fiddle with the monster's looks and backstory if we don't think it fits DROD. By all means, feel free to give backstory and stuff like that, but we might have this cool idea for a monster but no idea what it's going to do, and your idea is perfect. So that lovingly crafter backstory ends up being a mite redundant.

(Interestingly, this principle applies in advertising - don't give the client a polished campaign, as they won't be able to get involved. You give them a sketch, something visibly non-final, so they can comment and feel involved, then you get to work on the final product.)

By all means, add backstory. But not too much. Probably the most stylish idea is to just tell us what it does, then sneak details in as you answer questions.

Matt

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