b0rsuk
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Crawlspace would work just like regular space, except:

if Beethro is standing on Crawspace square, he can't put sword into

- solid wall square
- closed door square
- indestructible tar formations (perhaps).
-------------------
Such moves are impossible.

Devilish puzzles can be created using this.
A move = either actual move or sword rotation.

I admit I'm inspired with things Erik said about early versions of DROD.


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zex20913
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The biggest problem we come up against is if somebody tries to move the sword over those spaces. Does it just not register, and nothing moves? Does it count as two moves? (One there and one back) Or do the monsters move one space and the sword stay stationary (the player hits 5)

Each way has pros and cons, and they all have more cons than pros.

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NoahT
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I'd agree with Tim here, because in DROD it is supposed to be possible for Beethro to put his sword on any square (although it's illogical, and defies the laws of physics, that's how it is).

-Noah

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The_Red_Hawk
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Well, I think we're shoult have at least some type of square where Beethro can't put his sword.

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b0rsuk
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zex20913 wrote:
The biggest problem we come up against is if somebody tries to move the sword over those spaces. Does it just not register, and nothing moves? Does it count as two moves? (One there and one back) Or do the monsters move one space and the sword stay stationary (the player hits 5)

Each way has pros and cons, and they all have more cons than pros.

No, the biggest problem are people who post before reading carefully.

That case is already covered in first post. Let me explain what
"works like regular space" means:

Beethro can put sword into crawspace square
Beethro can enter crawlspace square*
any creature can enter crawlspace square
eyeballs can see through it.


* - unless it would result in putting his SWORD into solid wall/closed door/indestructible tar formation square. Such a move results in "bump" voice, it simply cannot be executed.

As for feeling uncofortable about limiting Beethro, remember:
you can't kill a serpent with sword.

Examples:

############
....@-.....#
#########..#
        ####

dot means crawlspace.
Beethro can move left and right, but can't rotate sword until he reaches the room to the right.
Even through the room is made of crawspace, the sword can be rotated above crawlspace without any problems.

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zex20913
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Oh, boy. You have just aggravated me. I will try not to appear angry though.

1. Is it crawlspace or crawspace? You keep mixing them up and confusing me, and my little uneducated mind that can't read things.

2. You NEVER specified the bump move in your first post. Therefore, even if I did read carefully, there was no way to know. Remember that we don't live inside your head. You have to describe the things.

You do say that the move is impossible, but all three of my scenarios work out to impossible moves.

Actually, I think I agree with you. The biggest problem we have is people who don't read carefully before they post. Or, if they do read, they don't think.

And if we're going to have something like this, I would rather it be an obstacle Beethro can't put his sword on instead of a space that has certain objects as obstacles. The first requires one way of thinking for the player, and the second requires a switch.

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RoboBob3000
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I've found it possible to create spaces where a sword can't go by using a system of "untouchable" orbs, that is, orbs that are close-only, and they link to doors that block off monsters or exits to the room. Check out my hold "Cerebella Archipelago" for some examples of how I did that. I'm sure someone could come up with better rooms than I did.

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DiMono
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Except that's not really a square where the sword can't go, it's just a place where if you put the sword there you can't finish the room, which is a concept I utterly despise.

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Oneiromancer
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Well, I think that's pretty harsh. If I go through a room and find that at the end I have to choose between two orbs, one will let me win, the other forces me to lose...then yes, I despise that. But if the whole puzzle is built around making sure you don't hit any of the orbs...well, that's a reasonable puzzle. Clayton has a nice orb maze like that in his hold...it's quite clever actually. And so is RoboBob's hold. Because it's not really a surprise in those rooms...it's the entire concept.

Game on,

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DiMono
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Treasure Hunt has one of these too, in The Vault 1S1W, and it's very well done there. As long as it's the concept of the room, like most of level 15 in Dugan's, I don't mind it that much. But if it's just something that incidentally can lose you the room, I don't like that.

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agaricus5
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DiMono wrote:
Treasure Hunt has one of these too, in The Vault 1S1W, and it's very well done there. As long as it's the concept of the room, like most of level 15 in Dugan's, I don't mind it that much. But if it's just something that incidentally can lose you the room, I don't like that.

However, the impact is much lessened by a checkpoint just before the offending orb.

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DiMono
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True, though too many checkpoints can look silly

Anyway, having had time to think about it, I think that as long as it's not something random (read: it's the concept of room, the orb is known to close the exit, etc) that's okay, but if it's just thrown seemingly haphazardly in to the room then I don't like it.

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