DGM
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It seems that Bioshock does some rather naughty stuff, including installing some potentially bad software behind your back that doesn't go away even with an uninstall of the game itself. This applies even to the demo. Here's a couple of posts on Twenty-sided giving more details on the issue:

http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1284
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1287

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[Last edited by DGM at 08-26-2007 06:01 AM]

Syntax
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Links aren't working by the way...

I always tend to to run virtualisation software before installing anything so will be downloading the demo as soon as I get some time

Thanks for the info though...

DGM
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Syntax wrote:
Links aren't working by the way...

I checked them in preview, and again just now. They're working for me.

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Syntax
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Yup... they're working for me now. Must have glitched earlier... Will check them out...

Maurog
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Read http://www.megagames.com/news/html/pc/2kaddressesfurtherbioshockconcerns.shtml too while you're at it.

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vittro
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Who cares, Bioshock is awesome.

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[Last edited by vittro at 08-26-2007 07:00 PM]

Jatopian
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vittro wrote:
Who cares, Bioshock is awesome.

Which will make it all the worse when you lose your data somewhere down the line and can't reinstall it without pirating.

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zonhin
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...



Gamers, stand up for yourself. Don't buy Bioshock. I don't care how awesome it is. I know, I played the demo. Don't buy Spore either for that matter.

Edit: This really reminds me of the vigilantes in the Wild West, a strong, non-government run over-reaction to a problem in a new frontier.

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[Last edited by zonhin at 08-26-2007 07:16 PM]

Oneiromancer
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Or, get the 360 version like me.

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zonhin
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You're still supporting the people who did this you know.

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Tim
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Or, get the 360 version like me.

Or, if you've read the article pointed by Maurog, it also said something about the 360 version as well.

I'm not interested in this game at all. My computer is too old for this.

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[Last edited by Tim at 08-26-2007 10:29 PM]

Oneiromancer
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Tim wrote:

Oneiromancer wrote:
Or, get the 360 version like me.

Or, if you've read the article pointed by Maurog, it also said something about the 360 version as well.

I'm not interested in this game at all. My computer is too old for this.

Er, I did read the article, did you? There is a "problem" with both the PC and 360 versions where the widescreen mode actually has less field-of-view than the fullscreen mode. This has nothing to do with the SecuROM issue that has everyone else in this thread so concerned. Since the 360 doesn't have the same copy protection requirements as the PC, there is no SecuROM on the 360 version.

I guess the extra $10 was worth it...although as my computer is also quite old, it would have cost probably about as much as another 360 just to run this game. Bioshock was an awesome game (just finished it 10 minutes ago) but it's not a console-seller or required computer upgrade for me.

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Tim
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Er, I did read the article, did you? There is a "problem" with both the PC and 360 versions where the widescreen mode actually has less field-of-view than the fullscreen mode. This has nothing to do with the SecuROM issue that has everyone else in this thread so concerned.

I know, but I was just joking

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NiroZ
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Before the hysteria gets too carried away, let me point out some things.

There is no rootkit, check Ars Technica for the details.
You can install it on two (windows) computers. For most people that will be more than enough. (unless you're giving it to a friend, which is exactly what they're trying to stop). They've promised to increase that to 5, and eventually remove it.

Bobpie
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zonhin wrote:
Don't buy Spore either for that matter.

Hasn't spore been delayed indefinantly?

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[Last edited by Bobpie at 08-27-2007 11:03 AM]

NiroZ
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While we're at it, don't buy Duke Nukem Forever. God knows what kinda of draconian security measures we will have by then.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 08-28-2007 08:40 AM]

Ezlo
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I think Spore was reannounced as spring '08. But I'll believe it when I see it.

mrimer
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Oneiromancer wrote:
I guess the extra $10 was worth it...although as my computer is also quite old, it would have cost probably about as much as another 360 just to run this game. Bioshock was an awesome game (just finished it 10 minutes ago) but it's not a console-seller or required computer upgrade for me.

Ugh...looks like it's time to upgrade most everything on my system in order to play the AAA games that are coming out these days. But, yeah, like you, I don't have full incentive to do it...yet...

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[Last edited by mrimer at 08-27-2007 07:01 PM]

trick
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Protection like this is unacceptable. This is exactly what so-called "Trusted Computing" is about; the computer doesn't trust you and treats you like filthy scum.

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[Last edited by trick at 10-26-2007 04:30 PM]

Tim
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Let's just say that any software that prevents the use of my current tools (like Process Monitor) will not get installed on my computer.

And I don't really care if it's a rootkit or a trojankit, I don't like it.

Would you let a stranger into your house, unsupervised?
Well, that's how SecuROM works.

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eytanz
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Tim wrote:
Let's just say that any software that prevents the use of my current tools (like Process Monitor) will not get installed on my computer.

Wait, where does it say it disables process monitor?

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Tim
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eytanz wrote:
Wait, where does it say it disables process monitor?

Oops. I mean Process Explorer. Just search on any search engine with "SecuROM Process Explorer".

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malkav11
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It doesn't disable Process Explorer - but if you've run Process Explorer during that boot, it won't let you run Bioshock.

Tim
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malkav11 wrote:
It doesn't disable Process Explorer - but if you've run Process Explorer during that boot, it won't let you run Bioshock.

My dear malkav11,

You don't get it, do you? Publishers usually demands DRM related technology to be added into good games, because that tempers demand. Less demands means that they have less chance that a product would be sold out, because publishers are accounted for a timely and sufficient distribution. Secondly, it will make a developer more dependent on the publisher.

It's a win-win situation, really.

-- Tim

PS. This advice does not apply to US Citizens.

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NiroZ
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wha... I think you responded to the wrong post. I can't see the correlation at all.

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[Last edited by NiroZ at 08-29-2007 07:53 AM]

malkav11
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No kidding.

Maurog
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I actually see Tim's point, even if the post he replied to has nothing to do with it.

It goes as follows - suppose a game is released and the demand is greater than the supply. The game is highly hyped up, so the people who don't get to buy it, will get it anyway - but without any profit to the company.

Now, imagine the following scenario - a game is released, but the company puts some controversial software in. Normal users ignore it, but paranoid freaks refuse to buy the game, reducing the demand. Later on, the company announces it removed the software, and paranoid freaks buy the game. The separation to two steps is ingenious, because of one single factor - if paranoid freaks won't even buy an original game if it's suspect, they are definitely not gonna get a pirated version.

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NiroZ
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Maurog wrote:
Now, imagine the following scenario - a game is released, but the company puts some controversial software in. Normal users ignore it, but paranoid freaks refuse to buy the game, reducing the demand. Later on, the company announces it removed the software, and paranoid freaks buy the game. The separation to two steps is ingenious, because of one single factor - if paranoid freaks won't even buy an original game if it's suspect, they are definitely not gonna get a pirated version.

You sure about that? Seeing as the news didn't come out until several days after it's release, it wouldn't actually do that much.

b0rsuk
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I hope people aren't so stupid as to accept copy protections easily. In the end, each game gets cracked and the only ones suffering from them are the buyers. Recording industries no longer think DRM is such a great idea. It annoys people to no end.
There is hope.

I'm happy to see research on alternative techniques, like watermarking. Instead of preventing copying, which may be well in the limits of fair use, make people responsible for their actions according to local law.

Maurog:

if paranoid freaks won't even buy an original game if it's suspect, they are definitely not gonna get a pirated version.

I fail to see the reasoning behind this.
--------

By the way, there ARE reasons to be paranoid. Skype client for Linux is closed source, of course. It has been recently discovered that it reads your /etc/passwd file. Not nice.
Nvidia drivers for Linux set bad permissions to /etc/Nvidia if you use Gentoo - a security threat. Thank gods for AppArmor !

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[Last edited by b0rsuk at 08-30-2007 06:34 AM]

NiroZ
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b0rsuk wrote:
By the way, there ARE reasons to be paranoid. Skype client for Linux is closed source, of course. It has been recently discovered that it reads your /etc/passwd file. Not nice.

AFAIK, it just accesses that file. I haven't heard anything yet about what it does in there.