Aris Katsaris
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Rename "rock giants" into "trolls".

I think that the name "rock giant" is just a little bit clumsy for a one-square monster. Also perhaps "troll" might fit nicely in a world that also contains goblins...

*g* Both Harry Potter and Tolkien had both of these kinds of creatures after all...

eytanz
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Trolls are too cliche - everyone has them. But I agree that "rock giant" is a bit cumbersome a phrase; maybe "ogre"?

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Oneiromancer
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Ogre is relatively common too. If you want suggestions for rock monsters I could look up some D&D stuff. One monster I remember from the Ultima games was the Xorn, a monster made of rock which could tunnel through walls. There might be a D&D equivalent, I can't remember right now.

Game on,

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Aris Katsaris
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Oneiromancer wrote:
Ogre is relatively common too. If you want suggestions for rock monsters I could look up some D&D stuff. One monster I remember from the Ultima games was the Xorn, a monster made of rock which could tunnel through walls. There might be a D&D equivalent, I can't remember right now.

Game on,

The point of the "rock giant" isn't that it can tunnel through rocks though (it can't), it's that it's big enough that even dead it creates an obstacle for Beethro.

And I don't think DROD should be using names taken from one particular source -- if a wholly new name can't be invented, then common names should be used -- "goblins" was such a common name, unlike e.g. 'Orc' which in this usage was invented by Tolkien alone.

"Ogre" sounds good to me too, if the name 'troll' is considered too much of a cliche.

Oneiromancer
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If the creature is named after something it doesn't have to be exactly like it. I don't particularly remember goblins being described as "running away from a sword until they get behind the wielder" in any mythology I've come across. I just mentioned the xorn because it's based on rock and it sounds cool. We can do whatever we want with it.

But I was okay with rock giant anyway. A roach queen is a one square monster too. Rock giant is nice and descriptive, it gets the point across about what it's going to do.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Aris Katsaris
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Oneiromancer -- my point wasn't that it has to be exactly like its name indicates, my point was that you had seemed to be latching on to the utterly decorative element of the previous name (the "rock" ) while ignoring the relevant bit (the "giant" )... Me and eitanz suggested names of creatures which are generally depicted as gigantic... trolls, ogres, and the like.

But hey, this is a trivial thing one way or another... No need for any of us to make a fuss about this. Keep it "rock giant" and it's just as well. It may even work better than our suggestions.

On another note, I feel that "Goblins" is quite meaningful as a name in the sense of intelligence, as they are the first creatures you can imagine being half-way intelligent in that they don't rush blindly at you (or from you)... and are likewise the first creatures whose names hint towards a non-animal monster -- one which is occasionally even portrayed as cunning (cf. goblins in Harry Potter).

[Edited by Aris Katsaris on 11-20-2003 at 08:59 PM GMT]

Oneiromancer
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Aris Katsaris wrote:
Oneiromancer -- my point wasn't that it has to be exactly like its name indicates, my point was that you had seemed to be latching on to the utterly decorative element of the previous name (the "rock" ) while ignoring the relevant bit (the "giant" )... Me and eitanz suggested names of creatures which are generally depicted as gigantic... trolls, ogres, and the like.

I really don't want to keep this going, but I feel like I have to point out that being a "giant" isn't the only relevant bit...if it were just a normal giant we wouldn't care how it died, it would just explode like everything else. It's the fact that it's made of rock or whatever that causes it to have a different puzzle quality, that of leaving a corpse behind that affects gameplay. If the creature were only made of rock but not a giant then perhaps Beethro could step over it. It's the combination of the two that is important.

Now, the best reason to use "troll" is in the way of The Hobbit, where they turn to stone when exposed to daylight. But that of course isn't necessarily a good correlation to make.

Now that I think about it I would like "Rock Golem" or "Stone Golem" better. Or even just "Golem" to be simple, but I think the qualifiers are important becuase the historical golem was not made of rock or stone, but mud or clay (if I recall correctly). Because a real giant is probably too big to fit into a dungeon anyway, whereas a golem could be created to be short and squat, perfect for blocking Beethro's way upon death.

Game on,

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"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Schik
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Okay, I've changed the name of the creature in 1.7 to one-square-sized-thingy-whose-corpse-blocks-your-way-when-it-dies-instead-of-disappearing-like-all-the-other-monsters.



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zex20913
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You should really extend it to one-square-sized-thingy-whose-corpse-blocks-your-way-when-it-dies-instead-of-disappearing-like-all-the-other-monsters-and-tends-to-piss-the-player-off-until-he-or-she-if-the-player-is-female-gets-used-to-the-logic-and-death-of-the-one-square-sized-thingy.

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mrimer
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In spite of the latest inspired nomenclature, I think that golem sounds great. How about we use that, guys? (Full name: stone golem?)

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Aris Katsaris
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mrimer wrote:
In spite of the latest inspired nomenclature, I think that golem sounds great. How about we use that, guys? (Full name: stone golem?)

Sounds great to me also. :-)

eytanz
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I think it's the best solution yet.

Though I'm partial to one-square-sized-thingy-whose-corpse-blocks-your-way-when-it-dies-instead-of-disappearing-like-all-the-other-monsters-and-tends-to-piss-the-player-off-until-he-or-she-if-the-player-is-female-gets-used-to-the-logic-and-death-of-the-one-square-sized-thingy-,-but-is-actually-a-stone-golem-when-you-think-about-it.

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mrimer
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I think we should put that down as the two-line description about what this monster is.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.