Andy101
Level: Master Delver
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As I see the current situation there is potential for variables to be used in a hold in a way which could make getting a high score for a room depend not only on optimising the room but also on making sure that the variables take the correct values at the time of optimisation. A hold could be made, for example, that allows you to complete one room quickest when you have played the rooms before it in a certain way and a second room to be completed quickest when the earlier rooms have been played in a totally different way. This could lead to the following:
a) The hold author gains an unfair advantage when it comes to getting high scores.
b) Optimising some rooms becoming near on impossible, due to the time required to find out the values that the variables need to take and to replay earlier parts of the hold to set those values correctly.

It's possibly that I've misunderstood the situation, in which case feel free to ignore this post, but assuming I haven't then is the hold submission process going to be altered to prevent such situations arising or are we simply going to have to put up with it?

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[Last edited by Andy101 at 04-08-2007 06:44 PM : Corrected typo]

eytanz
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The hold submission process doesn't need to be modified - since it is already run by reviewers. A policy will need to be instated - for me it seems, that the reasonable thing would be no "cheats" - i.e., it's ok for rooms to depend on other rooms *if* this information is evident to the player in-game. If you can get a highscore only if you follow a set of hidden instructions, that won't be acceptable. Already in 2.0 such concerns were raised, but you're right that variables make this a more serious problem.

Note that if a problem slips the attention of the HAs upon first review, we have the right to modify the hold to remove it later. So even if a hold has enough complex scripting to make the existence of the cheat obscured, once someone actually uses it to get a highscore, it will be fixable.

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Insane
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File: High scores.hold (1.9 KB)
Downloaded 43 times.
License: Public Domain

Care for a short demonstration?
Based on wich path you choose, rooms become longer/shorter.

-Insane

eytanz
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It's really not difficult to come up with examples of that... We have a few in TCB, for that matter. As I said, it's not about whether or not variables are used this way, it's about how much information the player is so that they can make fair decisions (compare to holds like "The Choice", where something similar happens in 2.0)

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Insane
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eytanz wrote:
It's really not difficult to come up with examples of that... We have a few in TCB, for that matter. As I said, it's not about whether or not variables are used this way, it's about how much information the player is so that they can make fair decisions (compare to holds like "The Choice", where something similar happens in 2.0)

Indeed, my demonstration was of the simplest-most form, and it was desired that as much information as possible was given to the player.

As for the choice, I beleive that it's a different set of rooms for tar/mud, with different sets of high scores, am I right?
As for TCB, care to say in wich rooms precisely?

Also, this is a problem in The Searing Wastes, since it's teh same room, help or no help.

-Insane

Jatopian
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Insane wrote:
As for the choice, I beleive that it's a different set of rooms for tar/mud, with different sets of high scores, am I right?

No.
Just pick the proper path if you want high scores. It's not that difficult really.

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Insane
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Jatopian wrote:

Insane wrote:
As for the choice, I beleive that it's a different set of rooms for tar/mud, with different sets of high scores, am I right?

No.
Just pick the proper path if you want high scores. It's not that difficult really.

Still, it forces one to take a certain path to get a #1 High score, wich is a bit dull as it takes away the actual choice.

I would prefer seperate high scores for each path.

-Insane

coppro
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It depends on what you want. For instance, what if each path provides different opportunities for high scoring? I'm planning on a hold where if you do something, you have a guard infested castle, but if you don't, the guards don't want to kill you. This offers a predicament. My solution is going to be a conquer token hidden out of the way such that only the guards path can get to it. Then, it's set as unrequired, so it will be purple (and unclearable) unless you angered the guard. But if you do get to the guards, you kill them, hit the conquer token, and go on your way. Thus, the room's highscore potential is not removed by the path that you chose, but you can still only score from one path.