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Caravel Forum : DROD Boards : Feature Requests : The Carniverous Jaw Flower
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agaricus5
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icon The Carniverous Jaw Flower (0)  
Don't ask about the name - I can't think of anything better!

The Carniverous Jaw Flower is actually an odd sort of plant that, after adapting to dungeon life, lost its power of photosynthesis and turned to eating other living creatures as its source of nutrients and energy.

The Flower starts off life as a seed which plants itself in in the ground. It develops rapidly with its roots growing down to anchor the plant in place while the stem grows a large bud from which the flower emerges. The Flower itself is lined with very sharp teeth, arranged in a spiral pattern around the flower's inside and, like a Venus Fly-Trap, can close itself if something triggers it off by stepping on it. The Flower waits patiently until its prey, anything that lands on it unwittingly in the dark, comes along. Once a monster has settled or stepped on it, the Flower's jaws immediately snap together and squash the victim, after which then proceed to chew it and then digest it by means of secretions of digestive juices.

The Flower is an immobile monster that will not react to Beethro being in the room. Instead, it will just wait until something, Beethro, any monsters, tar or any helper animal/monster (e.g. Tar Pikes), steps on it. When this happens, depending on the monster, the Flower will suddenly react. If Beethro or any single-square, vulnerable (to Beethro's sword) and non-flying monster steps onto it, it will suddenly snap shut, crushing the unfortunate victim in its jaws. It then spends one or two moves chewing it (You decide) and another one or two moves to digest it. If an armoured/invulnerable, non-flying monster steps onto it, it will spend one extra move chewing it because of the armour. If a long monster like a serpent moves onto it, it will bite the head off, and another head will grow on the square behind the head if the serpent has not been shortened to death. If the serpent continues to move towards the Flower, the Flower will go into a feeding frenzy and will eat as much of the serpent continuously as it can, until either the serpent dies, turns away, or the flower becomes full. If the flower finishes gorging itself on the serpent, then it will delay once more to chew and digest. If the Flower is engaged in eating, then it will be harmless to any other monster or Beethro and just becomes an obstacle like a wall until it has finished. Monsters that fly or float are not affected by the monster, and mimics, just to keep it consistent, are also unaffected because the flower doesn't like them - they are just obstacles to a mimic.

Unfortunately for Beethro, the Flower is actually invulnerable to his sword as its skin is very thick so it can withstand being cut by its own jaws and by the bones or shell of its prey. This means that the only way for Beethro to kill it without help is to give it enough prey to eat so that it will over-indulge and explode from having too much food inside it. After eating ten monsters or ten squares of monster, it will, after digestion, swell and explode, which will kill it instantly.

Its carniverous tendencies mean that Brains are wary of it and should one be present in a room, it will try to guide monsters around it to avoid them being eaten, although if a single passage leading to Beethro is blocked and there is no other way around, then the Flower acts like a wall, and monsters remain at normal intelligence levels.

Finally, Carniverous Jaw Flowers can be destroyed by most potions that destroy monsters, especially anything involving fire (If anything of the sort will ever exist), can be destroyed by Poisonous Gases, The Flow and be frozen by ice weapons, although it is resistant to anything electrical.

I have also thought up one or two variations to this monster:

The Sucking Flower

This flower is similar to the one above, except that it has the ability to suck monsters into it from a three-square radius around it. If any monster or Beethro, but not a mimic, though, steps into its sucking range, the force of the suck will pull it one square towards the mouth. The default suck movement direction is one square diagonally in the closest direction to the mouth, until the object is on a horizontal or vertical to the mouth, in which case it will be just sucked in horizontally or vertically. This time, however, the sucking force "moves last" so Beethro and all the other monsters will move first before the sucking inward happens, meaning it is possible to avoid being sucked in by moving one square outwards to "stay in the same place". This monster, however, swallows its victims whole, so even though ten victims will also explode it, until it reaches this limit, it will not stop sucking, even if it has just swallowed something. Serpents and other long monsters cannot escape either. If they are sucked in, they move inwards (either horizontally or vertically) by one square each time, and will be swallowed one square at a time if the flower can get them in its mouth. Finally, if the flower is sucking something in, then nothing else can be at the same time.

Reproduction in the Flower

I've thought up two ways this could happen - decide which you prefer, or you could even have it so that both occur at the same time - the behavior switches every 30 moves or so.

Asexual Reproduction

The flower has a reproductive variant, perhaps characterised by being a different colour. Unlike most normal Flowers, it is not able to eat things because it has no teeth, and so is soft and vulnerable to Beethro's sword. Instead, what it can do is to reproduce. Every 30 moves, a runner shoots out of the parent plant. The runner will grow at the rate of one square horizontally or vertically away from Beethro per move for six moves. Runners will follow force arrows and cannot grow on walls, pits, potions or tar. At squares 3 and 6 a bud forms and develops into a flower after one move. The one at square 3 becomes an ordinary Carniverous Jaw Flower, but the one at square 6 swaps with the original and becomes the reproductive one, while the original reverts to a normal flower. After the transfer, the runners die off. If the runner grows into a wall, then it will change direction and go in the direction that takes it furthest from Beethro, unless he is standing in a horizontal or a vertical direction to it, in which case it will immediately go in a clockwise direction, unless in a dead end, in which case it stops, and the flower develops at its end. Because of this, the flower is capable of moving around, and so Beethro has to try to stop it from moving into places where he cannot reach it and spreads too fast for him to control.

Sexual Reproduction

This type involves two types of reproductive flower, one male and one female. In this type, the reproductive flower can still be killed by Beethro's sword, and will never leave the spot they were originally on, but can spread much further and propagate farther into a dungeon room. Every 30 moves each flower sends out a cloud of reproductive cells like pollen, only in this case, the clouds are alive and can move themselves around. They are attracted to each other and will move like roaches towards each other until they meet. If they do, then they join together and fall to the ground. The affected square then becomes a developing bud, which is vulnerable for three moves until it becomes a proper flower again, and becomes invulnerable to his sword again. The clouds themselves fly and will follow force arrows, but are unaffected by pits, go through other monsters, mimics and even Beethro, neither of which are harmed by the other unless, of course, the clouds meet over a monster and fall on it, in which case the monster dies of poisoning and the bud forms there instead. They, because of their behavior, can be trapped behind simple obstacles and isolated so they cannot meet and reproduce, so pose no threat, and so do not need to be destroyed as they will never be able to meet unless the wall disappears, so they will eventually die. The only exception to the monster rule is with other Carniverous Jaw Flowers - the clouds will not travel over ther flowers as they will be destroyed if they were to reproduce over one. Finally, the clouds will behave like roaches under a brain's influence if there is one present in the room, and will try to meet each other by the shortest route possible.

I think that's it. I'm sorry for any things I may have left out towards the end as I rushed a little, so if you see anything odd or something may be missing, or is improperly explained, then please tell me about it.

Phew! ;)

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08-31-2003 at 09:24 PM
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NoahT
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Holy God Zukes! This idea is even more thought out than the Tar Pike! :blink

The normal flower does kind of sound like the Ant Lions from the Maxis game SimAnt. This sounds like a pretty cool idea that adds some new strategy to DROD.

It was a lot to read, and I didn't really pick up on anything left out, so I have nothing else to point out.

-Noah

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08-31-2003 at 09:45 PM
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agaricus5
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NoahT wrote:
Holy God Zukes! This idea is even more thought out than the Tar Pike! :blink
:D

The normal flower does kind of sound like the Ant Lions from the Maxis game SimAnt. This sounds like a pretty cool idea that adds some new strategy to DROD.
Cool! That was exactly the analogy I based it on! That's amazing! Yes, I do have a copy, except as a rom file for my Amiga emulator, so I don't own the original. Still, it's amazing to have found someone like me who has actually played the game before!

It was a lot to read, and I didn't really pick up on anything left out, so I have nothing else to point out.

-Noah
Thanks for having a look through anyway.

[Edited by agaricus5 on 08-31-2003 at 09:54 PM]

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08-31-2003 at 09:53 PM
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zex20913
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Wow...I am overwhelmed. The first thing I would mention is that you should make everything 5 moves as of now. I think there's something in the architecture section about this, in a post started by Erik about a "Threat clock" or something.

A few more things:

1. I don't really understand the snake vs. flower argument you presented. Can you try to clear that up a bit?
2. What about tar? I assume tar babies would just be eaten, but what if, say, tar were to expand onto the flower?
3. I would say no to the reproduction factors. They are extremely intriguing yes, but in a puzzle sense, they would be overwhelming. A flower would be able to eat five monsters per round (30 turns). If it needs ten to explode, it's not possible to kill it in one round going by the five turn rule (which ought to be enforced.)
4. The Sucking Flower would need some adjustment...it's not fun to be stationery (or stationary), or determine the killing laws of two-move turns. If anything, it should not be diagonal, but either horizontal or vertical, so Beethro would actually have a chance to escape.
5. How are the petals arranged? In reading this, I saw that it would be possible to have 4 or 8 petals surrounding a flower square.
6. In case the reproduction were to go into effect, would the shooters (or whatever they are) be vulnerable?

I think that's it.

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09-01-2003 at 02:20 AM
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agaricus5
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zex20913 wrote:
Wow...I am overwhelmed. The first thing I would mention is that you should make everything 5 moves as of now. I think there's something in the architecture section about this, in a post started by Erik about a "Threat clock" or something.
As in one move to grab, two to chew and two to digest?

A few more things:

1. I don't really understand the snake vs. flower argument you presented. Can you try to clear that up a bit?
It should look like this (assuming the flower is one square wide):

1.  A Serpent (Ssss) heads towards a Flower (F) with Beethro
(B-) standing directly opposite it:

   B-     F   Sssssss

2.  Three moves later, the Serpent has moved towards Beethro
and its head is next to the Flower:

   B-     FSssssss

3.   One move later, the serpent actually steps onto the
flower, because the serpent recognises the threat, but knows of
no other way to get to Beethro. The Flower then immediately
bites off the head. The square before the head re-forms into a
new head and the Flower does not delay to chew and digest; it
is in a feeding frenzy now and will open the flower again,
ready to eat more of it:

   B-     FSsssss

4.   If Beethro moves out of the serpent's line of sight, then
the Serpent will automatically sense this and turn to avoid the
flower:

   B-      S
          Fsssss

5.   When this happens, the Flower also senses that the Serpent
has moved away from it, so then spends two moves chewing and
another two to digest, just like after eating any other
non-flying monster. (I can't show this in a picture though.)

6.    If another monster walks into the Flower while a Serpent
is being eaten, it is the Serpent that is preferred as there is
more of it. For example, as in this setup. Walls are
represented by '#', and Roaches by 'R'. All other symbols are
as before.

        s
        s
        s
     #R s
     ## S
      ##F#
######## #
        B-

After one move...

        s
        s
     #  s
     ##RS
      ##F#
######## #
        B-

And another....

        s
     #  s
     ##RS
      ##F#
######## #
        B-

And finally, after two more moves...

     #  
     ## R
      ##F#
######## #
        B-

However, this is only for monsters. If Beethro treads on the
Flower, he gets eaten instead as Beethro moves first.


2. What about tar? I assume tar babies would just be eaten, but what if, say, tar were to expand onto the flower?

Tar squares affected will be swallowed (and then chewed and digested), which may or may not form Tar Babies, depending on the situation. If the flower is chewing, it is regarded as an obstacle so Tar cannot grow on top of it.

3. I would say no to the reproduction factors. They are extremely intriguing yes, but in a puzzle sense, they would be overwhelming. A flower would be able to eat five monsters per round (30 turns). If it needs ten to explode, it's not possible to kill it in one round going by the five turn rule (which ought to be enforced.)
I had planned for this - it does say this in the original description:
"Unlike most normal Flowers, it is not able to eat things because it has no teeth, and so is soft and vulnerable to Beethro's sword."

4. The Sucking Flower would need some adjustment...it's not fun to be stationery (or stationary), or determine the killing laws of two-move turns. If anything, it should not be diagonal, but either horizontal or vertical, so Beethro would actually have a chance to escape.

Aah, but you see, that's the whole fun of it - if you get caught, (including monsters) you cannot escape until the flower dies. It could make for some interesting puzzles where the only way to kill this Flower is to step into its sucking radius so you can attract monsters into it.

5. How are the petals arranged? In reading this, I saw that it would be possible to have 4 or 8 petals surrounding a flower square.

In fact I was intending a single square Flower, but now you mention it... It sounds better to have a central core occupy one square, and then have 8 petals around it, although it then makes it more complicated. If two monsters both step onto different petals at the same time, then both get eaten, and when the flower closes, it becomes one square wide for the moves when it chews and swallows. If a monster is in a petal square when it opens, then it will be squashed instantly by the flower.

6. In case the reproduction were to go into effect, would the shooters (or whatever they are) be vulnerable?

I was originally intending for the runner and buds to be invulnerable, but when the runner is still alive, if the reproductive parent dies, then all the buds on the runner also perish. It is only when the runner dies and the swap is complete when killing the parent does not affect the other plants it spawned.

Phew!

Any more questions/suggestions?

[Edited by agaricus5 on 09-01-2003 at 10:41 AM]

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09-01-2003 at 10:38 AM
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trick
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Whoa :P

Really well thought out. I like this monster (if it can be called a monster ?), except for the serpent part, and there's some other problems, i think.

Warning: I'm taking your flower behavior completely apart below. Nothing personal, and if you don't like it, that's perfectly okay - make sure to shoot me down in that case :)

* If it should bite off the head of a serpent in the first place (which i have mixed opinions about), in my opinion it should take its time to chew and digest it like anything else it eats - otherwise, wouldn't it get digestion troubles ;) ? But, it can't close its petals where the serpent is covering them, so it wouldn't act as a wall (correct me if i'm wrong here), and the serpent could run over it. Maybe the serpent could eat the flower in stead (though that makes it easier to kill in serpent rooms), or the flower could always act as a wall for serpents.

* Another problem that comes up is timing. This thing would break with the 5-turn rule no matter how long it spends eating or digesting, because it closes its petals whenever a monster it can eat enters them - in other words, it can close its petals out-of-sync with the 5-turn timer, so it opens them out-of-sync as well. Maybe it could just have regular eating periods, fx. every 10 turns, where it closes its petals no matter if anything is covering them, then spends 5 turns eating and digesting ? That would make it fit with the 30-turn period as well.

* Now for a question: What happens if a serpent or other unedible monster is covering some of its petals while it's trying to eat another monster (no matter if this is the eat-when-fed or the eat-at-regular-intervals behavior) ?
Two chars per square, first is monster layer, second is background layer (flower petals):
S = serpent head
s = serpent body
r = roach
F = flower head
f = flower petal

[--][--][--][--][--]
[S-][sf][sf][sf][s-]
[--][-f][F-][-f][--]
[--][rf][-f][-f][--]
[--][--][--][--][--]

In this case, can the flower close only the petals not covered by the serpent, or will all stay open so the life of the roach is spared ? This could maybe be used in complicated puzzles to transport a roach safely past a flower (or row of flowers in the eat-at-regular-intervals case), though that's probably getting too complicated.

That's it, for now :P

- Gerry


[Edited by trick on 09-01-2003 at 02:58 PM]
09-01-2003 at 02:57 PM
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agaricus5
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trick wrote:
Whoa :P

Really well thought out. I like this monster (if it can be called a monster ?), except for the serpent part, and there's some other problems, i think.
It was partly meant as an alternative to dead-end serpent killing.
Warning: I'm taking your flower behavior completely apart below. Nothing personal, and if you don't like it, that's perfectly okay - make sure to shoot me down in that case :)

Nope - I don't mind

* If it should bite off the head of a serpent in the first place (which i have mixed opinions about), in my opinion it should take its time to chew and digest it like anything else it eats - otherwise, wouldn't it get digestion troubles ;) ? But, it can't close its petals where the serpent is covering them, so it wouldn't act as a wall (correct me if i'm wrong here), and the serpent could run over it. Maybe the serpent could eat the flower in stead (though that makes it easier to kill in serpent rooms), or the flower could always act as a wall for serpents.
The flower was originally a one square monster, so converting it up to a 9 square one causes a few problems. I think that the flower opens immediately after the serpent's head is bitten off and so there is no state in between with a closed flower that has just bitten off a head. The flower will only gorge itself continually on serpent, so it can only over-indulge when it can eat the serpent squares simultaneously - if the serpent turns away, it realises this and then closes to chew and digest.

* Another problem that comes up is timing. This thing would break with the 5-turn rule no matter how long it spends eating or digesting, because it closes its petals whenever a monster it can eat enters them - in other words, it can close its petals out-of-sync with the 5-turn timer, so it opens them out-of-sync as well. Maybe it could just have regular eating periods, fx. every 10 turns, where it closes its petals no matter if anything is covering them, then spends 5 turns eating and digesting ? That would make it fit with the 30-turn period as well.
No. The monster was originally intended to be of a sort that does nothing at all until it is triggered by something stepping on to it. I don't think synchronisation works for something like this because you may want to time its eatings precisely, rather than having to wait for it.

* Now for a question: What happens if a serpent or other unedible monster is covering some of its petals while it's trying to eat another monster (no matter if this is the eat-when-fed or the eat-at-regular-intervals behavior) ?
Two chars per square, first is monster layer, second is background layer (flower petals):
S = serpent head
s = serpent body
r = roach
F = flower head
f = flower petal

[--][--][--][--][--]
[S-][sf][sf][sf][s-]
[--][-f][F-][-f][--]
[--][rf][-f][-f][--]
[--][--][--][--][--]

In this case, can the flower close only the petals not covered by the serpent, or will all stay open so the life of the roach is spared ? This could maybe be used in complicated puzzles to transport a roach safely past a flower (or row of flowers in the eat-at-regular-intervals case), though that's probably getting too complicated.
The suggested scenario cannot exist under the rules I have suggested because the flower closes when anything steps onto it. However, if the flower is closed and if anything that does not fly/float steps where a petal normally would be, and the petal falls directly onto it, then the monster underneath dies, or in the case of serpents, loses all the squares that the flower has squashed. The sacrificing of one monster to allow another to pass a flower can still be implemented, just in a different form.

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09-02-2003 at 09:14 PM
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Zmann
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I like this idea. It opens the door for some interesting (and probably cruel) puzzles. Keep up the good work mushroom dude. :D
09-03-2003 at 03:10 AM
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NoahT
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agaricus5 wrote:
Still, it's amazing to have found someone like me who has actually played the game before!

Yeah, SimAnt was good. You and I are a bit alike, Wesley. :D

-Noah

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09-04-2003 at 12:28 AM
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