admin
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A few words about myself first: I'm Henri – At the moment a 17-year old Finnish boy finishing my first year in High School. I've been playing Drod actively for close to 2 years and have made several holds earlier during that time. Gradually getting more and more tricky.

Beethro's Teacher is a quite traditional collection of puzzles. Many of the rooms have been designed to require some kind of tricks to complete, and most of the time don't require very specific moves after that. The difficulty is generally quite high, and even though you can get several small hints in game, it's recommended that you use the Hints and Solutions on the forum when this isn't enough. Because, well... Let's just say that in many places it won't be.

I hope you'll be able to have fun with the hold. That's why it was made.

Credits:

The main share of room testing was done by Larrymurk, Stefan, Alneyan, TripleM, Andy101, AlefBet, Wallu and Tim. You'll miss surprisingly many important things when building rooms, and having a small army of experienced Drod players at your command makes fixing these so simple.

Let's not forget the Caravel Team either! ErikH2000 has had a huge influence on this hold. The entire storyline and most of final character speech, along with several additional rooms were done single-handedly by Erik. Truly an impressive effort. Mrimer is responsible for working with the sound files and adding them into the hold. Rather large task, if you think about it.

Voice acting:

Beethro – Sten Ryason
Denfry – Tony Porter
Sentry 1 & 2 – Patrick Fisher

Cd Cover Art by Erik Hermansen

Special thanks to gamer_extreme_101 for being supportive in the early stage of the project. I must've gotten some motivation from him!

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[Last edited by ErikH2000 at 05-24-2006 10:45 PM]

Birkoff
Level: Delver
Rank Points: 62
Registered: 04-20-2004
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Are you running the latest version???

____________________________
I'm not outnumbered, I'm just in a
target-rich environment

"A hero is no braver than an
ordinary man, but he is brave five
minutes longer."
Ralph Waldo Emerson

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3310
Registered: 07-05-2004
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See this topic.

I had the same problem earlier with 2.0.14. Getting 2.0.14.1 and reimporting the hold should do the trick. This isn't possible without reinstalling Drod until the next patch comes out, though... (Except maybe if there's a hold update)

coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1309
Registered: 11-24-2005
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larrymurk wrote:
I'm not hearing any voice acting. I tried another hold and could hear voices. Any ideas?

I'm not hearing them eaither.

Then again, having pressed the mute button, I'm not that surprised. Also, Doom, you've already stumped me

Hikari
Level: Smiter

Rank Points: 438
Registered: 01-28-2006
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I hear voice acting... but I can't even solve *one* of the rooms in Level *One*... And here I thought I was finally starting to get good at figuring things out in DROD...

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Caravel Official Holds Progress:

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
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I think there's a bug on "Second Level: 2 South".
On the way back through this room, it's impossible to drop the red door leading to the tunnel...

Apart from that, it's a great hold so far.
Very great!

Oneiromancer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2936
Registered: 03-29-2003
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I know Mike was informed of this by someone via e-mail while the forum was down. I think he has an update ready and will probably upload it when he has the time.

Game on,

____________________________
"He who is certain he knows the ending of things when he is only beginning them is either extremely wise or extremely foolish; no matter which is true, he is certainly an unhappy man, for he has put a knife in the heart of wonder." -- Tad Williams

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
Registered: 12-12-2004
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And another hold that's probably really awesome, but I can't clear a single room.

Shazam.

Citrus
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1228
Registered: 01-08-2006
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I hear ya brother. I see how to do several rooms, I just can't do it.

Wait! I did clear one room! With a wraithwing in it! YES!!!

____________________________
Call me Citrus.

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Good grief -- I'm with the 'can't solve a single room' crowd. Even Perfection wasn't this tough.

I'm disappointed. I was expecting something a little more accessible. Ah well, maybe something will occur to me later.



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

mrimer
Level: Legendary Smitemaster

Rank Points: 5153
Registered: 02-04-2003
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Yes, thanks to Wallu for giving me the heads up on that problem room. Schik will upload a fixed hold as soon as he can.

____________________________
Gandalf? Yes... That's what they used to call me.
Gandalf the Grey. That was my name.
I am Gandalf the White.
And I come back to you now at the turn of the tide.

gamer_extreme_101
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1939
Registered: 03-07-2004
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Heh...I was just thankful that the hold was Anyone-Edit for a bit during the beta, or I would have never seen past the first three rooms.

____________________________
--That guy with a million different aliases since he doesn't like this name anymore.

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[Last edited by gamer_extreme_101 at 06-05-2006 06:56 AM : Clarification]

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3310
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jbluestein wrote:
Good grief -- I'm with the 'can't solve a single room' crowd. Even Perfection wasn't this tough.

I'm disappointed. I was expecting something a little more accessible. Ah well, maybe something will occur to me later.

I'm actually a little surprised people are finding the hold so difficult.

After 4 votes, the average difficulty is 'only' 7 brains while Perfection, for example, is at 8.5, voted by many more people.

As for accessibility, you can enter every room in the first level without clearing any others. This is more or less the case in others levels beyond the second, too. I was kind of hoping that'd solve the problem, but it's apparently not enough.

Blondbeard
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1486
Registered: 03-31-2005
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Gahh! No! You can't do this to me, Doom! Not when I have an exam at the end of the week (no, I didn't realize the hold was up since the forum has been down). If I'm strong I'll keep away from the hold, and play it later... I've just played one room, and it was absolutely fantastic. Wonderfull humor in the dialog between Bethro and the teatcher in the long corridor.

Briareos
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3516
Registered: 08-07-2005
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Doom wrote:
After 4 votes, the average difficulty is 'only' 7 brains while Perfection, for example, is at 8.5, voted by many more people.

Well, if perfection was 8.5 I'd give this one 11.

Waaay to tedious - I've solved 3 rooms in the first level and am really warming up to the idea of quitting this hold, never to play it again[1]...

(aka Scr*w efficiency, I'm just not THAT efficient!)

As for accessibility, you can enter every room in the first level without clearing any others. This is more or less the case in others levels beyond the second, too. I was kind of hoping that'd solve the problem, but it's apparently not enough.

Errr... so instead of having 1 room you're stuck in you can be stuck in several of them at the same time?


[1] Okay, for low values of "never", probably. Still, I'm not sure people wanted that hard a hold for their money...

np: Yagya - Their Blood Is Black And Yellow (Will I Dream During The Process?)

____________________________
"I'm not anti-anything, I'm anti-everything, it fits better." - Sole
R.I.P. Robert Feldhoff (1962-2009)

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1218
Registered: 05-12-2005
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Wohhhh...

This hold is genious puzzle solving. No more no less.
H&S is available if you're struggling but this hold has to be one of my favourites... if only for the fact that every room is surely impossible.

*Surely*

Oh... maybe not

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Doom wrote:

jbluestein wrote:
Good grief -- I'm with the 'can't solve a single room' crowd. Even Perfection wasn't this tough.

I'm disappointed. I was expecting something a little more accessible. Ah well, maybe something will occur to me later.

I'm actually a little surprised people are finding the hold so difficult.

After 4 votes, the average difficulty is 'only' 7 brains while Perfection, for example, is at 8.5, voted by many more people.

As for accessibility, you can enter every room in the first level without clearing any others. This is more or less the case in others levels beyond the second, too. I was kind of hoping that'd solve the problem, but it's apparently not enough.

Yeah, I try not to actually rate a hold until I've finished playing it. Sometimes things that seem really difficult are, well, not so much once you start to understand the sort of puzzles the architect comes up with.

But I've visited every room on the First Level (nine actual puzzle rooms that I can count) and I haven't been able to solve a single one. About the closest I've come is 1N, but, well, close can actually be very far away.

I'm definitely not in the DROD zone at the moment. Waiting for that brilliant flash of insight.

...5
...5
...5

so far, nothing.



____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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The brains count is a really inaccurate judgement of difficulty since almost always the people ranking a hold are the ones who solved it. People who get stuck early on and don't progress may be the majority, but they are unlikely to affect the ranking.

Note that, effectively, this hold has been out for a very short time, since the forum was down for most of it. People were unable to get hints, and some people (such as myself) probably didn't download it before the forum was down. So even people who aren't giving up on the hold may not be anywhere near completion and ranking it.

While I had access to the beta version of the hold, I never downloaded it since I was too busy. The first time I saw this hold was today. So far, I've been in the first real level and like others, I haven't been able to solve a single room. That makes it somewhat harder than Perfection, where I solved my first room after an equivalent amount of time.

Edit - solved my first room (L1 2E). Wow. Brilliant, brilliant design. Incredibly difficult, but I have to admire the planning that went into it.

____________________________
I got my avatar back! Yay!

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[Last edited by eytanz at 06-05-2006 03:49 PM]

Syntax
Level: Smitemaster
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eytanz wrote:
Edit - solved my first room (L1 2E). Wow. Brilliant, brilliant design. Incredibly difficult, but I have to admire the planning that went into it.

This surely is the point... *every* room is like this, and I stand in awe when I consider how much has gone into each one.

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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Oh, I agree. This is an immensly impressive hold. I'm just a bit concerned about how accessible it is to the majority of the players. Since SmS holds are commercial products, it's not really fair for people paying for them if they can't appreciate them fully because they're stuck early on.

This isn't a criticism of Doom, who I think did a stellar job here. It's a problem inherent to the SmS system, which I think Erik will need to find a way to resolve.

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coppro
Level: Smitemaster
Rank Points: 1309
Registered: 11-24-2005
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I actually passed the first level o_O.

After the section where Denfry abandons you in the second level, I'm stucked.

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[Last edited by mrimer at 06-05-2006 05:42 PM]

eytanz
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2708
Registered: 02-05-2003
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coppro wrote:
After the section where Danforth abandons you in the second level, I'm stucked.

I think you're mixing up two of Caravel's most (deliberately) annoying characters

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I got my avatar back! Yay!

Tim
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1979
Registered: 08-07-2004
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eytanz wrote:
So even people who aren't giving up on the hold may not be anywhere near completion and ranking it.

Well, I have played most of the rooms (not finished all of them though), and I can say that I would rate the difficulty of this hold a 9. Let's say that I will rank this a little bit harder than Perfection (and is probably a bit too hard for me).

And still, I think it is a brilliant hold. To be honest, if I need simple puzzles, I can get them everywhere on the internet. This one, however, is really exceptional.

I wouldn't suggest this hold for first-time players, but if you've finished JtRH, Perfection and Secret Society, and you still need some really challenging puzzles, this one will give you great value for money.

Brilliant hold. But not for 12-year-olds.

____________________________
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Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 2502
Registered: 09-10-2004
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I had a quick look this morning (only played through the High Path so far) and the story looks to be intriguing. (plus, I'm trying to stab him a little bit.)

A bug? -> Stairs from Level One back to the High Path appear to have a temporary level description.

I'm increasingly of the option that Journey "to" Rooted Hold was misnamed

What would be cool is a graphics mod that replaces the guard talky face with Denfry's.

Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3310
Registered: 07-05-2004
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Rabscuttle wrote:
A bug? -> Stairs from Level One back to the High Path appear to have a temporary level description.

Whoops. This is the case with backtracking every stairs in the hold. I think it's most convenient to copy the level entrance descriptions to the returning-to-that-level descriptions. I'll do it after hold updating is back unless Schik wants some additional work.

I'm increasingly of the option that Journey "to" Rooted Hold was misnamed

Heh, would "Journey to journey to (journey to...) Rooted Hold" be more appropriate?

What would be cool is a graphics mod that replaces the guard talky face with Denfry's.

A graphic mod. Or maybe some management.

Rabscuttle
Level: Smitemaster

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Registered: 09-10-2004
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Doom wrote:

Rabscuttle wrote:

What would be cool is a graphics mod that replaces the guard talky face with Denfry's.

A graphic mod. Or maybe some management.

I have just cut & pasted the CD cover into /Bitmaps/faces.png.

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[Last edited by Rabscuttle at 06-06-2006 02:03 PM]

jbluestein
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1670
Registered: 12-23-2005
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Tim wrote:
And still, I think it is a brilliant hold. To be honest, if I need simple puzzles, I can get them everywhere on the internet. This one, however, is really exceptional.

I wouldn't suggest this hold for first-time players, but if you've finished JtRH, Perfection and Secret Society, and you still need some really challenging puzzles, this one will give you great value for money.

Brilliant hold. But not for 12-year-olds.

I think I have to disagree with you to some extent, Tim.

I agree that there is a place for Expert-level holds. I'm less convinced that the Smitemaster's Selection is in fact the place for these holds.

The SS Holds are (to me) one of the main selling points of CaravelNet memberships. If the goal is to get as many members as possible, then this selling point ought to be more accessible. Of all the CaravelNet members currently registered, what percentage do you think are up to the challenge of this hold? (I'm guessing it's a pretty small number.)

I consider myself to be a fairly good DROD player -- I can usually tell what's needed to solve a given room, even if I can't always make it happen.

But this hold breaks my brain. I've actually managed to solve one room on the first level (1N). So far the others are 'clearly impossible' to the point where I don't even find the process of trying to solve them enjoyable.

I accept that there will be holds like that (I'd better accept it, as there are plenty), but I'm not really happy about paying for the privilege of being stumped quite this badly, and I suspect that this is not the best way for Caravel to attract more members.

Henri -- I don't want to come off sounding like a sourpuss here. Your designs are really good. I really enjoyed Nightmare Dungeon, and your entry in the Death to Death contest was the only entry I felt merited a 10. But this hold, I'm sad to say, fails to excite me. I'm sure it's brilliantly designed. But I'm also fairly sure that I will never get to experience the brilliance of it as I can't imagine getting off of the first level without massive hints. Were it an independently-released hold, I'd just be shaking my head, saying 'Wow...too tough for me.'

This came out longer than it probably should have. Apologies in advance if anyone feels that the commentary is inappropriate.

Josh

____________________________
"Rings and knots of joy and grief, all interlaced and locking." --William Buck

Banjooie
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 1645
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I want to say more than /sign, here, to steal from the WoW Forums, but I can't. I'm just equally tired of the SS's basically being 'here is this awesome story which 95% of the playerbase will only discover by using H&S for every single room.'

I realize that there's good places for superhard holds, but christ on a pogo stick, can we keep it to about The Choice difficulty?

Pinnacle
Level: Smitemaster

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Doom
Level: Smitemaster

Rank Points: 3310
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Just noting that the hold has been updated, fixing the bug in L2:2S that prevented you from completing the level.

If you didn't have voices, you could probably get them before the next patch is released by making sure you're running 2.14.1, and after that downloading the updated version.

(edit - I'll try to get the missing level entrance texts done now before too many people get this version)
(edit - done)

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[Last edited by Doom at 06-11-2006 02:50 PM]